Could you please implement no-gap range bars as a standard bar type in Multicharts? I know this had been brought up before and the response from Multicharts was in the form of a recommendation to use the command line and enter "X point(original)" there to create the old version of range bars the MC once had.
This option is not only inconvenient but is hardly a solution to our needs because:
1). my attempts to use it in the MC 8.5 64bit have produced multiple "errors requiring developer's attention". The new set of candles does appear on the chart but causes the above problem, occasional MC freezes and indicator errors.
2). The "original" range bars are not always plotted correctly. For example, I see occasional >8 tick range bars on a an 8 range chart, etc.
3). There are trading techniques that rely on the use of no-gap range bars and do not work the "original" MC range bars.
What we need is a standard range bar type like the one available in the other competitive platforms, where a new bar starts once the range has been met and not when it has been exceeded.
Adding this bar type as a standard option would be very helpful to a number of users. Can it be implemented in a near future?
No-gap range bars.
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TJ
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Re: No-gap range bars.
It would help if you can cite a reference of the "No-gap range bar" where the specifications (logic) are detailed.
It would help also if you can post a chart sample.
It would help also if you can post a chart sample.
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FogChaser2011
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Re: No-gap range bars.
No-gap range bars are well known and implemented in the other competitive platforms. In brief, they are constructed such that each bar closes and the next one starts when the old one has met the designated range. The range bars currently implemented in MC are constructed such that each bar closes and the new bar starts when the range has been exceeded by a tick. This complicates the use and backtesting of many trading strategies. Why can't MC add this feature?
As far the "original" MC range bars are concerned, I do not know how they are constructed, but they are not even fixed range bars but rather something else. See the attached screenshot. The chart shows "8 point(original)" candles. The histogram below shows individual bar ranges. It is obvious that the "original" range bars in MC do not qualify as range bars at all.
I not sure why MC would want to leave out a highly useful feature (no-gap range bars) that others have taken the time to make available to their customers.
As far the "original" MC range bars are concerned, I do not know how they are constructed, but they are not even fixed range bars but rather something else. See the attached screenshot. The chart shows "8 point(original)" candles. The histogram below shows individual bar ranges. It is obvious that the "original" range bars in MC do not qualify as range bars at all.
I not sure why MC would want to leave out a highly useful feature (no-gap range bars) that others have taken the time to make available to their customers.
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- MultiCharts_Range_Bars_Original_Style.png
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Last edited by FogChaser2011 on 27 Mar 2013, edited 1 time in total.
Re: No-gap range bars.
If you want broken range bars, go back to the platform you were using before. No one can use them with any valid system.. even the developers at TS will tell you that. Do a search on their forums and look at the hundreds of complaints about the "requests" (bugs) that you're suggesting here.
In my opinion, the "no gap" feature in the platform you are referring to is a glitch/bug which cripples the platforms unique bar types. Tests are invalid and charts masks the real market with fake data. Gaps happen! That's life. We need to create strategies while knowing this.
The same goes for making the open equal to the previous close in a range bar. This simply is NOT how the market will happen in real trading.
Thank you Multicharts for not painting data where there isn't any data!!!!!! It's one of the critical features that make this platform better than the rest.
In my opinion, the "no gap" feature in the platform you are referring to is a glitch/bug which cripples the platforms unique bar types. Tests are invalid and charts masks the real market with fake data. Gaps happen! That's life. We need to create strategies while knowing this.
The same goes for making the open equal to the previous close in a range bar. This simply is NOT how the market will happen in real trading.
Thank you Multicharts for not painting data where there isn't any data!!!!!! It's one of the critical features that make this platform better than the rest.
Last edited by MAtricks on 28 Mar 2013, edited 1 time in total.
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FogChaser2011
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Re: No-gap range bars.
These are pretty strong statements. How exactly does the use of no-gap range bars produce fake data and failed backtests? Could you elaborate? Quite a few traders out there, including myself, are finding correctly constructed no-gap range bars necessary for successful use of their trading methods.
There is no need to take a polar antagonistic approach to this. I am asking to add the no-gap range bar feature, not to replace the current range bars.
There is no need to take a polar antagonistic approach to this. I am asking to add the no-gap range bar feature, not to replace the current range bars.
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FogChaser2011
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Re: No-gap range bars.
"The same goes for making the open equal to the previous close in a range bar. This simply is NOT how the market will happen in real trading"
What exactly do you mean by this? Market can and does trade the same price more than once. Happens all the time. Therefore, closing the current bar at the first trade meeting the range and opening the next one at the same price with zero volume cannot distort market data.
I am not sure what flavor of range bars you have used and for what trading methods. They work just fine for mine and for those of a good number of people I interact with, except I have to use the other trading platform for that at the moment and would much prefer not to have to do it and stick with my MC instead.
What exactly do you mean by this? Market can and does trade the same price more than once. Happens all the time. Therefore, closing the current bar at the first trade meeting the range and opening the next one at the same price with zero volume cannot distort market data.
I am not sure what flavor of range bars you have used and for what trading methods. They work just fine for mine and for those of a good number of people I interact with, except I have to use the other trading platform for that at the moment and would much prefer not to have to do it and stick with my MC instead.
Re: No-gap range bars.
I apologize for the strong opinion. Multicharts is the only retail platform that produces range bars in a realistic fashion. The platforms that also produce range bars in a correct manner costs 2x more than MC on a monthly basis. Again, I apologize if I don't explain in detail how inaccurate your posted perspective is... If you're a fan of how TS provides range bars, you don't take trading seriously.
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arnie
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Re: No-gap range bars.
Interesting, this is the exact reason why I love range bars.In brief, they are constructed such that each bar closes and the next one starts when the old one has met the designated range. The range bars currently implemented in MC are constructed such that each bar closes and the new bar starts when the range has been exceeded by a tick.
I have always a 1 range/point chart on because it allows me to see things that no other chart resolution is capable of showing.
For example, prices moved from 47.50 to 45.75 without ever coming back to 47.50. Then moved from 48.00 to 48.25 without ever coming back to 48.00. That's showing that "someone" is in a hurry to move prices from that area.
It's a very clean chart, showing what prices did per tick.
By the way, I haven't understood yet why the Wiki refers to Range bars while MC continues to call it Point bar, why don't change this to Range if it's what they are and are known for?
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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: No-gap range bars.
Hello FogChaser2011,1). my attempts to use it in the MC 8.5 64bit have produced multiple "errors requiring developer's attention". The new set of candles does appear on the chart but causes the above problem, occasional MC freezes and indicator errors.
This issue has been confirmed. It will be fixed in the next version of MultiCharts. To avoid it-do not use Volume profile on Point Original chart.
When “Point Original” resolution is used:2). The "original" range bars are not always plotted correctly. For example, I see occasional >8 tick range bars on a an 8 range chart, etc.
The bar closes when the following condition is met:
modulus |Open*PriceScale - Close*PriceScale| >= chart resolution (a tick is not split, it is completely included in the bar, even if the price difference exceeds the chart resolution).
“Point Original” bars differ from “Point” bars in MC.
"Point" resolution chart type:
The bar closes when the condition is met:
modulus |High - Low| > chart resolution * (MinMovement / PriceScale)
• price difference in points is equal to selected chart resolution
• a new bar is formed from the remainder of tick price with MinMovement*PriceScale offset
• the volume is allocated proportionally between all bars built from the tick, i.e. summarized tick volume is equal to summarized bars volume
• one tick is included into a bar only once, i.e. summarized tick amount is equals to summarized amount of TotalTicks in bars (if the tick is split up-it will be calculated in the first bar, it will not be calculated in the next bars)
I have forwarded your suggestion to our developers.What we need is a standard range bar type like the one available in the other competitive platforms, where a new bar starts once the range has been met and not when it has been exceeded.
Adding this bar type as a standard option would be very helpful to a number of users. Can it be implemented in a near future?
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FogChaser2011
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Re: No-gap range bars.
Henry,
Thank you for your response and for the description of MC point bar logic. Are you aware that the original bars do not seem to stay within the designated fixed rage when plotted? Please see the attached image showing an 8 point(original) candle chart with individual bar ranges (H-L) plotted as the histogram underneath. Just thought I'd bring this to your attention.
Thank you for your response and for the description of MC point bar logic. Are you aware that the original bars do not seem to stay within the designated fixed rage when plotted? Please see the attached image showing an 8 point(original) candle chart with individual bar ranges (H-L) plotted as the histogram underneath. Just thought I'd bring this to your attention.
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- MultiCharts_Range_Bars_Original_Style.png
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FogChaser2011
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Re: No-gap range bars.
@arnie:
I haven't used range bars the way you do to spot 1 tick gaps, but I see your point. Just to reiterate my main point, I have nothing against the current range bars in MC, just asked to add no-gap range bars (basically, an MC adaptation of RangeNoGap bars available for other trading platform) because they really help when used with the method I trade. Different things for different people, you know. It is surprising that MC doesn't offer this no-gap range bar feature while all other trading platforms have it.
I haven't used range bars the way you do to spot 1 tick gaps, but I see your point. Just to reiterate my main point, I have nothing against the current range bars in MC, just asked to add no-gap range bars (basically, an MC adaptation of RangeNoGap bars available for other trading platform) because they really help when used with the method I trade. Different things for different people, you know. It is surprising that MC doesn't offer this no-gap range bar feature while all other trading platforms have it.
Re: No-gap range bars.
To show what you want is simply an illusion that many new "traders" fall into.. There's no data behind what you're requesting. No bids/asks/trades. If you don't see it on these present range bars, it isn't there. You can't trade what isn't there... You can create an overly optimistic test result off of what you're requesting though.
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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: No-gap range bars.
FogChaser2011, that is expected behavior. As I wrote above:Are you aware that the original bars do not seem to stay within the designated fixed rage when plotted?
“Point Original” bar closes when the following condition is met:
modulus |Open*PriceScale - Close*PriceScale| >= chart resolution (a tick is not split, it is completely included in the bar, even if the price difference exceeds the chart resolution).