What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimized?

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
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Dave Masalov
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What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimized?

Postby Dave Masalov » 02 Dec 2011

Dear Users,

We would like you to answer the following question as a part of a survey:

What component of MultiCharts (charting, backtesting, optimization etc.) do you want to be optimized in terms of performance and why?

Please post your answers in this thread.

Thanks,

MultiCharts Team

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby JoshM » 02 Dec 2011

Thanks for starting this thread/survey and listening to our input. Really appreciate that. :)
What component of MultiCharts (charting, backtesting, optimization etc.) do you want to be optimized in terms of performance and why?
Good question, I don't really have a clear answer here since I assume that the 64 bit version of MultiCharts would give an overall better performance for those three components.

But looking at which component (in terms of performance) is the most important for me, I would say charting/quote processing, since I don't mind waiting 3 minutes longer on a backtest or optimization, but a lag of 20 seconds in charting would pose a far more serious problem. (Not suggesting here that MultiCharts is so slow, but just an example to highlight that performance speed in charting is essential in my opinion).

I also had to trim down on my number of symbols to prevent backlogs in quote processing, and still have frequent small blacklogs and 'big red ones' during very volatile market conditions (so I have to trim back more). Those reasons are why I think that better performance in charting/quote processing is important.

Regards,
Josh

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2011

I would say charting/quote processing.
charting + quote processing + indicator calculating

Consumer CPUs reached 6 cores and the core count will keep on increasing. I see no reason why only one core is used by MC while performing some charting operations.

I use only 2 indicators: volume + bid and ask . I have multiple charts of the same instrument and bid and ask indicator lags (different bid and ask values for one instrument on different timeframe charts on the same moment).

As far as my preference goes EVERYTHING (even such trivial operations like chart background and price scale drawing) that relates to charting in MC should be multi-cored and multi-threaded.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2011

Maybe this old issue might be resolved viewtopic.php?p=24880 and the legacy division mechanism is gone.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby arnie » 02 Dec 2011

... I would say charting/quote processing...
Definitively!!!

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby greenroomhoo » 02 Dec 2011

backtesting/optimization

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby ventus » 02 Dec 2011

...I would say charting/quote processing, since I don't mind waiting 3 minutes longer on a backtest or optimization, but a lag of 20 seconds in charting would pose a far more serious problem.
I agree 100% with JoshM and Tresor. My number one priority is always on live trading and all aspects regarding live trading (which includes quote processing, indicator calcs, etc). Slow backtesting/optimization is a nuisance but a slight hiccup on real-time charts with live strategies can be very costly.

And btw, thank you MC for doing this!

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby TJ » 02 Dec 2011

If backtesting and optimization is not fast enough,
you can always buy a faster computer, or to wait overnight for results.

If backtesting and optimization result is not good enough,
you can always make another run.

The market waits for no one:
Live trading is the priority, whether manual trading or autotrading, it has to be fast, accurate and easy to use.

... all else can wait.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby greenroomhoo » 02 Dec 2011

i should have clarified - fix memory problem so that backtesting/optimization work on larger portfolios/timeframes.

speed is fine.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby CrazyNasdaq » 02 Dec 2011

I've NO DOUBT !!!
Charting and quote processing first.
Secondary indicators calculations.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby kiasom » 03 Dec 2011

Well said, TJ!

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby bowlesj3 » 03 Dec 2011

Agreed "Charting and quote processing first"

As far as "indicators calculations" I often have had to wait for an study to catch up so it can send data back go my external program via GVs. However placing this command
RecalcLastBarAfter(1);
at the bottom of of the LastBarOnChart if statement has made a huge difference in speeding me up during the day. I thought it might bog MC down if I put it on too many studies but it is having exactly the opposite effect and I am tempted to put it on every single study so they fire at least every second (I do not use volume at all so for me it has no impact on my system if a fake same price tick comes in every second). I use only one workspace, one symbol, 8 charts and maybe 5 to 10 studies on some of the charts so my delays were all about "just too much code to process for each tick". The problem is the external program did not care about that and when it sends a GV out it wants those studies to get that value immedediately. So the timed processing solved that.

As far as charting goes (that is the actual price data goes), I use to use Qcharts which has a different feed than the broker and I am not kidding it at times would get 3 minutes behind the IB TWS feed (and very commonly 3 to 10 seconds behind). MC (with the ability to get the feed directly from the broker feed) to me as just amazingly fast when it comes to prices coming in compared to Qcharts. I am not sure how it could get better here.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 04 Dec 2011, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby tradinghumble » 03 Dec 2011

Charting + quote processing is also my priority, changing charts resolution is not as fast.

Also, please give us:

1. Hotkeys
2. OHLC bars that can be colored by default ... not just one color

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby SUPER » 03 Dec 2011

The market waits for no one:
Live trading is the priority, whether manual trading or autotrading, it has to be fast, accurate and easy to use.

... all else can wait.
That's how I prefer too

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby vking » 04 Dec 2011

MC Team - This could be a side note but you need to prioritize and address the core functionality of "trading" related activity - as reported in this PM request.

https://www.multicharts.com/pm/viewissu ... _no=MC-454

Thanks..

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Dave Masalov » 05 Dec 2011

Hello Tresor,

Could you please send us your workspace so we can test it on our end?
I would say charting/quote processing.
charting + quote processing + indicator calculating

Consumer CPUs reached 6 cores and the core count will keep on increasing. I see no reason why only one core is used by MC while performing some charting operations.

I use only 2 indicators: volume + bid and ask . I have multiple charts of the same instrument and bid and ask indicator lags (different bid and ask values for one instrument on different timeframe charts on the same moment).

As far as my preference goes EVERYTHING (even such trivial operations like chart background and price scale drawing) that relates to charting in MC should be multi-cored and multi-threaded.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurentius » 05 Dec 2011

Thanks Dave for doing this.

I am in no doubt. First Chart and Quote Processing.

Laurentius

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby snoop » 06 Dec 2011

Nothing new to add but my vote: charting and quote processing is primary imo

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Emmanuel » 06 Dec 2011

Hi
Good question, I don't really have a clear answer here since I assume that the 64 bit version of MultiCharts would give an overall better performance for those three components.
If we have a 64 bit version of MC, we will need it to be compatible with the actual DLL 32 bit
(external indicator) in PowerLanguage

Emmanuel

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 06 Dec 2011

Hello Tresor,

Could you please send us your workspace so we can test it on our end?
The workspace will not tell you much. I will try to make a screenshot. This will not be easy to capture the screen in the right moment.

In the meantime please have a look at the case described in the attachments.

I am plotting Bid and I expect (I can be mistaken here) the bar to display Bid but sometimes Bid is slowler than the price shown on the bar and sometimes it is faster.
Attachments
1 the same.jpg
(125.44 KiB) Downloaded 9325 times
2 slowler.jpg
(121.21 KiB) Downloaded 9309 times
3 faster.jpg
(109.51 KiB) Downloaded 9290 times

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 06 Dec 2011

Just a thought about data loading optimization. Pure data from data feed (price, volume and open interest) should be backfilled / plotted in one time.
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chart opt.jpg
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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Dave Masalov » 07 Dec 2011

I am plotting Bid and I expect (I can be mistaken here) the bar to display Bid but sometimes Bid is slowler than the price shown on the bar and sometimes it is faster.
Tresor,

Please make sure that 'Update on Every Tick' option is enabled or 'Skip Identical Ticks' option is disabled in the properties of your indicator (Format Study --> Properties --> Advanced).

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 07 Dec 2011

Please make sure that 'Update on Every Tick' option is enabled or 'Skip Identical Ticks' option is disabled in the properties of your indicator (Format Study --> Properties --> Advanced).
It has always been the default setting of my bid and ask indicator. I am sure you can reproduce my findings by connecting to PFG. I am using this indicator to plot bid and as for the current bar: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7557#p34435

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Dave Masalov » 07 Dec 2011

Tresor,

Please enable bid and ask indication on the status line (Format Window --> Status Line) and send us screenshots showing discrepancies between bid and ask in the status line and on Chart Trading panel if any. Also please tell me the exact build of MultiCharts that you are using.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 07 Dec 2011

Tresor,

Please enable bid and ask indication on the status line (Format Window --> Status Line) and send us screenshots showing discrepancies between bid and ask in the status line and on Chart Trading panel if any. Also please tell me the exact build of MultiCharts that you are using.
Unfortunately I can't do this (but would love to) because my PFG demo ended a few hours ago. My build is MultiCharts Version 7.4 Beta (Build 4846).

I would appreciate if any MC user who is connected to PFG could perform the action suggested by Dave on my behalf.
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demo ended.jpg
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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Dave Masalov » 07 Dec 2011

Tresor,

We failed to reproduce the issue on our end. As far as I am concerned you can create unlimited number of PFG demo logins. Please come to our Live Chat to demonstrate the issue if it can be reproduced.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 07 Dec 2011

OK.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby 2haerim » 07 Dec 2011

As speed/memory/cpu are mentioned enough, I would point others.

[1] Portfolio backtester's symbol limit to 5 max is too small.
=> 20 would be good enough, and it better be at least 10.

[2] Supporting non-english comment in PLEditor.

thx

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby flipflopper » 08 Dec 2011

I would say before optimizing the first thing is to address a few stability issues.

I think Multicharts is already perfect if it was only a bit more stable.

I can get MC to crash quite easily. Mostly when I make changes to the quote manager or backtest on zenfire data. Any time I start playing with quotes

Not sure if these bugs are just from zenfire but hopefully future versions will be more stable.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby PricePuzzle » 09 Dec 2011

I would say before optimizing the first thing is to address a few stability issues.
I used to get the same feeling as yours. But imagine if you have 10 datafeed * 10 brokers could be 100 pairs to create the problem because each has thier own software. One reason i choose MC is variety of choices.

So we just do our part to report the possibility of the bugs, although it is not fun and sometime cost $.
Hopefully, MC will do their job as promised by Andrew in viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9300 post#29 that we may have bug free version very soon.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Dave Masalov » 09 Dec 2011

I can get MC to crash quite easily. Mostly when I make changes to the quote manager or backtest on zenfire data. Any time I start playing with quotes

I used to get the same feeling as yours.


flipflopper, PricePuzzle

We receive all the crash reports that are sent to us and if the exception has been reported several times, meaning that it is a serious issue, we fix the issue. You may see a number of such issues in Project Management.

Please send us a video showing the steps to reproduce the crash or come to our Live Chat Mon-Fri from 6:30 AM to 1 PM EST for investigation: http://messenger.providesupport.com/mes ... pport.html

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby AMarsland » 09 Dec 2011

Portfolio Backtester with Bar Magnifier functionality please

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby arjfca » 09 Dec 2011

Wishing list gift from MC for this Holidays period....

For me, MC need to improve on taking full control over orders

Actually, my orders are sent from an external application (TWSLINK) to allow me to have all my orders information to reside on IB server

Stop, Take profit after entry, Valid after time, Valid til time etc. All info for my orders reside on one order sentence and reside on my broker server. I could turn off my PC and trade / orders will be protected. Orders will be cancelled if my Stop Limit Order not reach before the end of the bar and order will be valid only after a given time. Limit and Stop are not controled via MC but within IB server

I understand that MC as to be compatible with all brokers and they could not built special interface for IB, but this was my need.

Another wish that I have is the creation of functions to allow the control over rectangular box. We could create and control a line via code, but nothing with rectangle. Since we could edit them (box's) from the screen interface, code already exist in the backbone of MC. All it need is to have them publish so we could have access to them

A good day to all

Martin :)

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby alex522 » 09 Dec 2011

To me, charting, backtesting, optimization of MC are already pretty good. And I expect further optimization won't make too much difference. If there is one single feature I want to optimize. It's the delay from after receiving the quote, to generate the relevant chart and signal to broker. Because this delay can really affect the performance in real trade in a fast moving market.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby alex522 » 09 Dec 2011

Instead of speed, I think extend the bar magnifier to cover multiple data series is far more important.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby TJ » 09 Dec 2011

Play Back at tick increments on a minute bar.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby SUPER » 09 Dec 2011

Play Back at tick increments on a minute bar.
Fully support this idea

+ PlayBack-Tick increments on all types of chart
+ Back testing resolution for custom symbols

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby larssan » 10 Dec 2011

Trading, both live and auto.
That must be the most important feature in a trading software...

Thanks, Lars

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby SUPER » 12 Dec 2011

Play Back at tick increments on a minute bar.
Fully support this idea

+ PlayBack-Tick increments on all types of chart
+ Back testing resolution for custom symbols
+ "IncludeSignal" keyword.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Nick » 13 Dec 2011

As nearly everyone else has said, the basic processing of data getting quotes (either from the database or downloading them) and displaying them in a chart in the most timely way possible. This should make everything feel more 'snappy'.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurent » 15 Dec 2011

Backtesting and Optimization with a GPU support.
I think it could be 10 times faster with this support.

Moreover, it would be nice because it could be use to others features... :)

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 15 Dec 2011

Tresor,

Please enable bid and ask indication on the status line (Format Window --> Status Line) and send us screenshots showing discrepancies between bid and ask in the status line and on Chart Trading panel if any. Also please tell me the exact build of MultiCharts that you are using.
On this screenshot the indicator is not as fast as the price.

MultiCharts Version 7.4 Beta (Build 4846)
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bid ask.jpg
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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby JoshM » 16 Dec 2011

Tresor,

Please enable bid and ask indication on the status line (Format Window --> Status Line) and send us screenshots showing discrepancies between bid and ask in the status line and on Chart Trading panel if any. Also please tell me the exact build of MultiCharts that you are using.
On this screenshot the indicator is not as fast as the price.

MultiCharts Version 7.4 Beta (Build 4846)
Is that with or without a manually forced recalculation with ReCalcLastBarAfter()?

I had a similar problem with Bid/Ask data, but since an indicator is only updated with a new tick (i.e. a completed trade), it lags the Bid / Ask updates, since these happen more often. Adding the ReCalcLastBarAfter() with 0.5 seconds solved it for me.

Regards,
Josh

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby StratMan » 16 Dec 2011

MultiCharts is too slow
MC is too slow to display a graph of an instrument, even with little history.
I am forced to use Oanda when I need to get an instant graph: it is a straw!
With MC, I have to select policy instruments one by one to update the historical data and limit the loading time when I call the graph.
MC should be improved to become as fast as Oanda, for a similar history!

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 17 Dec 2011

I do not want to jump into premature conclusions, but it seems that data processing / loading + charting including indi speed seem to be the most preferrend area for optimisation.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby StratMan » 17 Dec 2011

In fact, my dream is that MC includes all the features of Oanda, (a good copy and paste should be possible ;-)) including responsiveness ...

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby h4nk » 20 Dec 2011

I would like to add order submission to optimization list. The way MC submits, modifies and cancels orders to the broker must be as fast and efficient as possible. After all, order submission is a realization of trading strategies.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 19 Feb 2012

Multicore chart analysis by TS: https://www.TS.com/trading-te ... t-analysis

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurent » 19 Feb 2012

hey Tresor, that would be a great feature, but that would be better to be able to use the GPU! but if I remember that have been refused! :)

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 19 Feb 2012

hey Tresor, that would be a great feature, but that would be better to be able to use the GPU! but if I remember that have been refused! :)
For charting and indicator calculating, I think, MC using multiple CPU cores would be enough (one core per one chart) - no need to use GPU computing for charting. TS demonstrated it could be done.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby tortoise » 19 Feb 2012

I'm no doubt overlooking something here, but isn't Multicharts already using multiple CPU cores?

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurent » 19 Feb 2012

I thought it was also using multi cores :-)

That's why GPU is a lot better :) You can have performances 100 times better (just see mining with bitcoins)

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 19 Feb 2012

I thought it was also using multi cores :-)
It is using multiple cores for optimization, not for charting.

That's why GPU is a lot better :) You can have performances 100 times better (just see mining with bitcoins)
I am well aware of GPU capabilities. For now I would be fine if charts could use multiple cores, just like TS can use them.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby sptrader » 19 Feb 2012

TJ: The market waits for no one:
Live trading is the priority, whether manual trading or autotrading, it has to be fast, accurate and easy to use.

... all else can wait.[/quote]
*************************

+1 I agree 100% with TJ. (Fast , accurate and STABLE)
Last edited by sptrader on 19 Feb 2012, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby tortoise » 19 Feb 2012

I thought it was also using multi cores :-)
It is using multiple cores for optimization, not for charting.

That's why GPU is a lot better :) You can have performances 100 times better (just see mining with bitcoins)
I am well aware of GPU capabilities. For now I would be fine if charts could use multiple cores, just like TS can use them.

Really?! So now TS has the jump on Multicharts?


Looking through this forum, I'm seeing a lot of conflicting answers on this, with several individuals stating that MC does use a separate core for each chart. Can we get the official word from Multicharts please?

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby tortoise » 19 Feb 2012

Here's a statement from tssupport back in 2009:


Marina Pashkova
#12 posted Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:30 pm

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Hi guys,

Just wanted to clarify a couple of things.

Not all processes can take advantage of multiple cores. At the moment, calculations of indicators on different charts and optimization are distributed between different cores/processors.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 19 Feb 2012

Looking through this forum, I'm seeing a lot of conflicting answers on this, with several individuals stating that MC does use a separate core for each chart. Can we get the official word from Multicharts please?
This thread migh help: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6016

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby tortoise » 19 Feb 2012

Yes, thanks. I guess I'm just an idiot about this because, reading that thread, it's not clear to me that anyone actually knows the answer.

I wish tssupport could post something as clear-cut as TS's explanation.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Stan Bokov » 20 Feb 2012

I thought it was also using multi cores :-)
It is using multiple cores for optimization, not for charting.

That's why GPU is a lot better :) You can have performances 100 times better (just see mining with bitcoins)
I am well aware of GPU capabilities. For now I would be fine if charts could use multiple cores, just like TS can use them.

Really?! So now TS has the jump on Multicharts?

There seems to be a lot of confusion in terminology here, so let me clarify.

As far as clarity of explanation goes, TS can hardly be regarded as a shining example - in a mailout they included a phrase "we've seriously beefed-up Chart Analysis performance with the addition of multi-core functionality. This new functionality allows you to take better advantage of multiple processor computing, as well as the additional memory that is available in 64-bit environments", which sparked questions from dozens of our users. In fact, TS was and remains a 32-bit application, yet that sentence made people think it was capable of using memory like a 64-bit app.

Video card (GPU) calculations are good for parallel calculations, but are no good for sequential calculations. A lot has been written on this topic, simply Google it if you would like an explanation in more details.

MultiCharts was and is faster than TS, and now it’s the only 64-bit trading platform that is capable of using EasyLanguage scripts and all available memory on a computer. There are no software memory limitations on backtesting, charting or other components.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurent » 20 Feb 2012

Hello Stan,

Let me add 2 questions :)

1. Does MC use sequential calculations or parallel calculations during the optimization/backtest process? Does it depend of the kind of optimization? (neural/exhaustive?)

2. I do not know if you know "bitcoins" (that's an electronic currency you can generate with a GPU by 'mining'). Using a graphical card, you can get 50-200 times faster than just one CPU. That's really impressive. If optimization is done with parallel calculations, I think with a modern graphical card, that would be impressive!

However, I know the idea of using GPU has been declined on the PM. So is it possible to know why it has been declined? Not possible to implement in MC? Too much work to develop? Not efficient? Just not the priority ? That's curiosity :)

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Tresor » 20 Feb 2012

Video card (GPU) calculations are good for parallel calculations, but are no good for sequential calculations.
I think I can come up with an idea that should be implementable that would allow MC to benefit from GPU computing. MC would still use sequential calculations while running optimizations on GPU.
MultiCharts was and is faster than TS
That goes without saying. I merely thought it would be good to optimize charting by using multiple cores, just the way TS does it.

The reason for this would be a better utilisation of cores in a CPU. It is a standard now-a-days to have 4 or 6 core CPUs. Why not use them all for charting.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 24 Feb 2012

MultiCharts uses sequential calculation method. GPU card cannot be utilized for sequential calculations, because that is not possible to divide the data series into parts and do the calculations without reference to historical data.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurent » 24 Feb 2012

Hello Henry,
GPU card cannot be utilized for sequential calculations
Yes, that's a fact. But in which parts of the application does it utilize sequential calculations? Only Charting or the whole application ?

Does MC also use sequential calculations during the optimization/backtest process ? (It seems when I read your last answer)

If the optimization process also uses sequential calculations, it will never be possible to add a GPU support, and in fact this subject/topic is definitively closed :)

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 24 Feb 2012

The whole MultiCharts application uses sequential calculations (charting, optimizing, backtesting).

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Laurent » 24 Feb 2012

Thanks Henry for your answer!

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby manualtrader » 24 Feb 2012

Like many people said, "Prioritize and address the core functionality of 'trading' related activity."

I am glad MC is considering to improve 1): ATM strategy; 2): IB 5-second update chart. When you search online, you will always see NT concentrates on ATM, ATM, and ATM, which makes chart trading very easy and simple. Does NT has better technology? No! But they concentrate on the issue to improve actual trading.

Now, I would like MC to consider another great functionality for trading: integrate Chart and DOM, please check the attached chart/dom from SerriaChart, when you move your mouse on the DOM, it is pointing to the chart, you can click to send order at any second on the chart. If I place order within MC, I have to do right click-place order-look for which order to use. With MC Dom, I have to find out the price on chart, then I turn to DOM to look for the price on the ladder, once I complete the steps, price is gone. If you read Mike's post at thebigmiketrading.com, he praises MC to death, however, he himself uses SC to trade, why? Better Functionality of Trading, that is what traders need, not bells and whistles.

Sorry MC if I use inappropriate words, but I would like to see MC grows bigger and better.
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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby tortoise » 27 Feb 2012


There seems to be a lot of confusion in terminology here, so let me clarify.

As far as clarity of explanation goes, TS can hardly be regarded as a shining example - in a mailout they included a phrase "we've seriously beefed-up Chart Analysis performance with the addition of multi-core functionality. This new functionality allows you to take better advantage of multiple processor computing, as well as the additional memory that is available in 64-bit environments", which sparked questions from dozens of our users. In fact, TS was and remains a 32-bit application, yet that sentence made people think it was capable of using memory like a 64-bit app.

Video card (GPU) calculations are good for parallel calculations, but are no good for sequential calculations. A lot has been written on this topic, simply Google it if you would like an explanation in more details.

MultiCharts was and is faster than TS, and now it’s the only 64-bit trading platform that is capable of using EasyLanguage scripts and all available memory on a computer. There are no software memory limitations on backtesting, charting or other components.

Thanks very much for your response. Unfortunately I am as confused as ever. The assertions in this thread and on this board seem to run all over the lot--at least from the perspective of an attentive reader who is not trained in the nuances of parallel vs. sequential operations.

As an aside, strictly from a communications perspective, TS has done an excellent job explaining, in clear, layperson's language, precisely how their software distributes computational duties to multiple processors. Could you kindly do the same?

Now, just to be clear, I'm not talking about backtesting, but real-time, live charting. Perhaps we might start with an example:

Let's say I have open a workspace with nine charts. On each chart I have, say, seven studies running. Let's also assume that my computer is a multi-threaded quad-core i7 (four actual cores, eight virtual cores). How does MultiCharts utilize these cores?

Many thanks for all your great work!

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 28 Feb 2012

Thanks very much for your response. Unfortunately I am as confused as ever. The assertions in this thread and on this board seem to run all over the lot--at least from the perspective of an attentive reader who is not trained in the nuances of parallel vs. sequential operations.

As an aside, strictly from a communications perspective, TS has done an excellent job explaining, in clear, layperson's language, precisely how their software distributes computational duties to multiple processors. Could you kindly do the same?

Now, just to be clear, I'm not talking about backtesting, but real-time, live charting. Perhaps we might start with an example:

Let's say I have open a workspace with nine charts. On each chart I have, say, seven studies running. Let's also assume that my computer is a multi-threaded quad-core i7 (four actual cores, eight virtual cores). How does MultiCharts utilize these cores?

Many thanks for all your great work!
Hello Tortoise,

MultiCharts utilizes the multi-threaded CPU to increase chart indicator calculations by splitting the load between the CPU cores (each chart gets a separate flow).

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 28 Feb 2012

Like many people said, "Prioritize and address the core functionality of 'trading' related activity."

I am glad MC is considering to improve 1): ATM strategy; 2): IB 5-second update chart. When you search online, you will always see NT concentrates on ATM, ATM, and ATM, which makes chart trading very easy and simple. Does NT has better technology? No! But they concentrate on the issue to improve actual trading.

Now, I would like MC to consider another great functionality for trading: integrate Chart and DOM, please check the attached chart/dom from SerriaChart, when you move your mouse on the DOM, it is pointing to the chart, you can click to send order at any second on the chart. If I place order within MC, I have to do right click-place order-look for which order to use. With MC Dom, I have to find out the price on chart, then I turn to DOM to look for the price on the ladder, once I complete the steps, price is gone. If you read Mike's post at thebigmiketrading.com, he praises MC to death, however, he himself uses SC to trade, why? Better Functionality of Trading, that is what traders need, not bells and whistles.

Sorry MC if I use inappropriate words, but I would like to see MC grows bigger and better.
Hello Manualtrader,

Thank you for your suggestion. It has been forwarded to our developers.
Currently we do not plan to implement this feature in the nearest future.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby StratMan » 28 Feb 2012

In the same spirit as Manualtrader, I think TSS should look at the Oanda platform which is much more ergonomic to place orders directly from the chart.
It is a version without DOM which should be very simple to implement ...

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Emmanuel » 28 Feb 2012

Hi


I ask the "tic by tic" playback available with multiple data series

We have it with multiple data series, day by day, minute by minute but why not tic by tic ?

It is clear that it is necessary.

And we need the tic by tic available in Global mode


Emmanuel

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 28 Feb 2012

In the same spirit as Manualtrader, I think TSS should look at the Oanda platform which is much more ergonomic to place orders directly from the chart.
It is a version without DOM which should be very simple to implement ...
Hello StratMan,

Please share you opinion with us - what exact components of MultiCharts chart trading should be improved and how.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 01 Mar 2012

Hi


I ask the "tic by tic" playback available with multiple data series

We have it with multiple data series, day by day, minute by minute but why not tic by tic ?

It is clear that it is necessary.

And we need the tic by tic available in Global mode


Emmanuel
Hello Emmanuel,

Unfortunately such functionality cannot be implemented at the moment due to technical limitations.
We will consider this feature for the future implementation.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby vking » 01 Mar 2012

Henry - Tick by Tick replay for the platform would be a big win. Even if it is not global - if it can be allowed for a single instrument - it should work in short term. But global tick by tick replay would be an ideal feature.

Thanks.

Hi


I ask the "tic by tic" playback available with multiple data series

We have it with multiple data series, day by day, minute by minute but why not tic by tic ?

It is clear that it is necessary.

And we need the tic by tic available in Global mode


Emmanuel
Hello Emmanuel,

Unfortunately such functionality cannot be implemented at the moment due to technical limitations.
We will consider this feature for the future implementation.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 02 Mar 2012

Henry - Tick by Tick replay for the platform would be a big win. Even if it is not global - if it can be allowed for a single instrument - it should work in short term. But global tick by tick replay would be an ideal feature.

Thanks.
Hello Vking,

Tick by tick playback is already available for all resolutions in local mode with 1 data series on the chart.
The subject of discussion was "Tick by tick playback in global mode and for multiple data series on 1 chart".

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby vking » 02 Mar 2012

Henry - I am referring to 2 tick charts of the same instrument ( not 2 data series in the same chart). At present - you can individually replay one chart ONLY at a time not both the charts at a time.

Thanks.
Henry - Tick by Tick replay for the platform would be a big win. Even if it is not global - if it can be allowed for a single instrument - it should work in short term. But global tick by tick replay would be an ideal feature.

Thanks.
Hello Vking,

Tick by tick playback is already available for all resolutions in local mode with 1 data series on the chart.
The subject of discussion was "Tick by tick playback in global mode and for multiple data series on 1 chart".

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 05 Mar 2012

Henry - I am referring to 2 tick charts of the same instrument ( not 2 data series in the same chart). At present - you can individually replay one chart ONLY at a time not both the charts at a time.

Thanks.
Henry - Tick by Tick replay for the platform would be a big win. Even if it is not global - if it can be allowed for a single instrument - it should work in short term. But global tick by tick replay would be an ideal feature.

Thanks.
Hello Vking,

Tick by tick playback is already available for all resolutions in local mode with 1 data series on the chart.
The subject of discussion was "Tick by tick playback in global mode and for multiple data series on 1 chart".
Thank you for your suggestion.
We will consider this feature for implementation, however it is not planned to be implemented in the nearest future.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby mefTrader » 12 Apr 2012

Definitely Replaying a trade sequence tick by tick would help to debug strategies with 'IntraBarOrderGeneration=true'

seeing differences between a backtested strategy and a strategy live is a pain to debug

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 12 Apr 2012

Definitely Replaying a trade sequence tick by tick would help to debug strategies with 'IntraBarOrderGeneration=true'
seeing differences between a backtested strategy and a strategy live is a pain to debug
Tick by tick data playback is already available in MultiCharts for a chart with one data series. If you have "IOG=On" for your signal-it will be calculated on every tick.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby kiasom » 13 Apr 2012

As noted above, if you have more than one data series and use non-traditional bars (point, range, tick, volume bars), the data replay function is unusable, since only gives you minute-by-minute replay of data. In practice, it actually makes it impossible to use multiple data series!

I think, if you ask about 'optimizing' any part of MC, you should first of all consider fixing the data replay for the many users who use only non-traditional bars.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 13 Apr 2012

As noted above, if you have more than one data series and use non-traditional bars (point, range, tick, volume bars), the data replay function is unusable, since only gives you minute-by-minute replay of data. In practice, it actually makes it impossible to use multiple data series!

I think, if you ask about 'optimizing' any part of MC, you should first of all consider fixing the data replay for the many users who use only non-traditional bars.
Kiasom, Data Playback is not a broker. It functions properly.
Please vote for this feature request if you would like Data Playback to be improved.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby mno » 15 Apr 2012

+1 vote onto many folks who emphasized on : "Charting and quote processing first"

and possibly faster handing of external DLLs.

I use GV heavily to verify my signals and keep track of i_markposition and other stuff from multiple charts so that I control which signals to take and disregard. I find studies and strategies that rely on external DLL are slower to update so I use RecalcLastBarAfter(n) to make them update faster.

Anyone else in similar situation? And use similar methods to resolve?

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby JoshM » 19 Apr 2012

We would like you to answer the following question as a part of a survey:

What component of MultiCharts (charting, backtesting, optimization etc.) do you want to be optimized in terms of performance and why?
Since I suppose the survey is finished now, can you share some of the conclusions? :) Can we expect better charting and quote processing, which seemed to be the consensus in this thread, in the next version of MultiCharts?

Besides the survey, I'm also interested in hearing about the development path/direction of new MultiCharts versions. What can we expect in the future; more discretionary trading functions, more automated trading capabilities, (automated) options trading, or something completely else? (Though I understand that, due to competition you can't say very much about it, but even a small glimpse at the future will be much appreciated to satisfy my curiosity. :) )

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Dave Masalov » 24 Apr 2012

Since I suppose the survey is finished now, can you share some of the conclusions? Can we expect better charting and quote processing, which seemed to be the consensus in this thread, in the next version of MultiCharts?
After analyzing all the feedback we decided not to focus on one particular component, but gradually improve all of them, thus improving the overal performance of MultiCharts.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby escamillo » 02 Jan 2013

Thanks very much for your response. Unfortunately I am as confused as ever. The assertions in this thread and on this board seem to run all over the lot--at least from the perspective of an attentive reader who is not trained in the nuances of parallel vs. sequential operations.

As an aside, strictly from a communications perspective, TS has done an excellent job explaining, in clear, layperson's language, precisely how their software distributes computational duties to multiple processors. Could you kindly do the same?

Now, just to be clear, I'm not talking about backtesting, but real-time, live charting. Perhaps we might start with an example:

Let's say I have open a workspace with nine charts. On each chart I have, say, seven studies running. Let's also assume that my computer is a multi-threaded quad-core i7 (four actual cores, eight virtual cores). How does MultiCharts utilize these cores?

Many thanks for all your great work!
Hello Tortoise,

MultiCharts utilizes the multi-threaded CPU to increase chart indicator calculations by splitting the load between the CPU cores (each chart gets a separate flow).
So for an Intel CPU with hyper-threading which, as stated above can be "four actual cores, eight virtual cores", is MultiCharts "splitting the load between" 4 cores or 8 cores? Thanks.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 03 Jan 2013

So for an Intel CPU with hyper-threading which, as stated above can be "four actual cores, eight virtual cores", is MultiCharts "splitting the load between" 4 cores or 8 cores? Thanks.
Hello Escamillo,

The load is split between the real cores, not virual.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby escamillo » 03 Jan 2013

Thanks Henry. MC has some notable advantages that make it worthwhile to consider upgrading computer: 64 bit, ability to use any number of cores. Perhaps someone can set up a thread with a standard test so that benchmark performance can be established by CPU.
For example, how does the 8 core AMD FX-8150 perform in the benchmark vs the Intel 6 core i7-3930K, dual-processor Xeon machines, etc.

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Re: What component of MultiCharts do you want to be optimize

Postby Nick » 04 Jan 2013

If backtesting and optimization is not fast enough,
you can always buy a faster computer, or to wait overnight for results.

If backtesting and optimization result is not good enough,
you can always make another run.

The market waits for no one:
Live trading is the priority, whether manual trading or autotrading, it has to be fast, accurate and easy to use.

... all else can wait.
This.

Charting and quote processing is a real time operation, time is quite literally money! Back testing and optimisation is not.

While I am used to how MC runs now in the past it has felt slower after odd major upgrades.


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