Multicharts on Window server, AWS, EC2

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
champski
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Multicharts on Window server, AWS, EC2

Postby champski » 08 Mar 2013

Hi,

I've been live trading MC v8.0 64bit on a server with Windows 2008 R2 and I am continually having stability issues whereby the server will randomly bluescreen. The only software running on the server is MBT Desktop Pro as MBtrading is my broker.
Server specs are 2gb CPU, 1.5gb ram. It's a vps with bibihost.com and I continually assured the problem is not with the hardware.

I restart the server every week and install the latest critical windows updates at the time.
I'm thinking of switching to 32bit version of Windows server 2008, 32bit version of MC and the MBT desktop (not pro edition) as I guess this setup wont be as resource hungry.

Can anyone help me? I'm live trading and it's not a nice thought that my server could just bluescreen anytime, at worst during a losing trade!

Cheers
Champski

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby TJ » 09 Mar 2013

Hi,

I've been live trading MC v8.0 64bit on a server with Windows 2008 R2 and I am continually having stability issues whereby the server will randomly bluescreen. The only software running on the server is MBT Desktop Pro as MBtrading is my broker.
Server specs are 2gb CPU, 1.5gb ram. It's a vps with bibihost.com and I continually assured the problem is not with the hardware.

I restart the server every week and install the latest critical windows updates at the time.
I'm thinking of switching to 32bit version of Windows server 2008, 32bit version of MC and the MBT desktop (not pro edition) as I guess this setup wont be as resource hungry.

Can anyone help me? I'm live trading and it's not a nice thought that my server could just bluescreen anytime, at worst during a losing trade!

Cheers
Champski
You will need at least 8 GB of RAM to run the server and MultiCharts 64 bit.
Some people might tell you they have no problem running with less RAM, YMMV.

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby virginiatrader » 09 Mar 2013

champski:

I am curious...why would you run a front end application like MC on a server OS? Server 2008 variants are excellent platforms that perform admirably in the roles they are intended to be used in, but one does not normally associate using one as a workstation.

The infamous "blue screen of death" (BSOD) usually occurs for one of two reasons, either a hardware incompatibility, or more often because some snippet of code is not separated adequately from the hardware "machine" by the application layers of the software, the app "touches" something that it shouldn't, and the CPU doesn't know what to do with it, hence the BSOD.

In addition, the purpose of a server and it's OS are to be "something", like a domain controller with M$ Active Directory, or a file or application server, and provide support for the workstations that are joined to it and access it. Apps like MC are very powerful, and need a lot of horsepower to perform at their best. Less than two gigs of RAM is barely adequate for a server that should only be idling in the background, much less functioning as your trading platform.

The advantage of x64 operating systems is the ability to access available RAM greater than four gigs. There are several versions of Windows 7, but 7 Professional and Ultimate are your best bet.

Good trading!

virginiatrader

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby davewolfs » 09 Mar 2013

This is a hardware issue, not a software issue.

Software doesn't make your system blue screen, hardware does usually.
Last edited by davewolfs on 09 Mar 2013, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby txls » 09 Mar 2013

Almost all VPS/dedicated servers providers I've seen carry 2003 server/2008 server, not W7Pro/Ultimate/W8Pro.

Which kinda makes sense, with them servers and all.

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby champski » 10 Mar 2013

thanks for the replies

txls and virginiatrader:
You're right, I'd choose Windows 7 32bit if I had the choice but it's not offered by bibihost.

Regardless, it looks like I'm going to go for MC 32bit, Windows Server 2008 32bit and I'm also going to upgrade my hardware specs to the next package i.e 2.5 ghz CPU and 2.5gb RAM.

What's you're opinions on those hardware specs? Are they sufficient enough?
Also, are there any Operating System optimisations or stability enhancements anyone knows about, specifically for MC? I'm not using it as a server so I guess I might be able to remove a whole heap of things....

Cheers
Champski

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby StefanoSF » 11 Mar 2013

Champski,

For comparison, I'm running a similar instance Windows Server 2008 R2 64bit with 2 gigs of Ram and it does not crash. Yes it needs more ram but it works and does not crash. My hosting is http://www.triple8.net but using Amazon Web Services (http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/#pricing) or Microsoft Cloud Hosting (http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/prici ... l-machines) is probably best.

- Stefano

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby MAtricks » 12 Mar 2013

I'm running Windows Server 2008 64bit, MC 64bit, and MBT Pro with 2 gigs of ram. No issues here... Ever. http://www.photonvps.com/?aff=3198 I run it 24/7 without a disconnect or issue in the 6 months that I've been with them. The service with these guys is awesome.

Have your server host reset your server and try again.. If it doesn't work, switch hosts!

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby champski » 13 Mar 2013

StefanoSF and MAtricks,

Out of curiosity, what brokers are you both using and how many workspaces do you have open at any one time?

Cheers

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MAtricks
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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby MAtricks » 13 Mar 2013

MB Trading, Interactive Brokers, and Open Ecry. These 3 are running with the 1 copy of Multicharts 64bit 24hrs a day.

I have 6 workspaces open and 12 windows open in each workspace.

Never have had an issue...

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby MAtricks » 13 Mar 2013

Change or talk to your VPS provider. This is their issue, not Multicharts'.

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby StefanoSF » 14 Mar 2013

StefanoSF and MAtricks,

Out of curiosity, what brokers are you both using and how many workspaces do you have open at any one time?

Cheers
My broker is IB with 5 workspaces, two charts on each workspace.

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 15 Mar 2013

champski, you can also create a dump file when you have BSOD and then analyze it with BlueScreenView to find the source of the issue.

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby wilkinsw » 29 Jan 2014

I'm running Windows Server 2008 64bit, MC 64bit, and MBT Pro with 2 gigs of ram. No issues here... Ever. http://www.photonvps.com/?aff=3198 I run it 24/7 without a disconnect or issue in the 6 months that I've been with them. The service with these guys is awesome.

Have your server host reset your server and try again.. If it doesn't work, switch hosts!
@MAtricks,

I'm just researching getting onto a dedicated/VP server. Do you still use a
VPS with photonvps.com? Only that they aren't taking any more orders
currently.

Do you find that a VPS is sufficient and that there aren't significant
advantages using a dedicated server?

I have 9 workspaces. 6 windows per workspace. 15min-60min timeframes each
with approx a year of history. I trade CME (CME/COMEX/CBOT/NYMEX) products. No IOG strategies. But plently of realtime
indicators.

Would like to get this thread going again. Don't really know where to start with remote servers! I'm thinking I'll have to spend about $300pm for a dedicated server that meets my needs?

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby MAtricks » 29 Jan 2014

Wilkinsw,

If you're trading Chicago based products, definitely get a Chicago based server. It's hard to find a budget server there, but there are a few if you look long and hard. VaporNode does a great job for a really good price. https://portal.vapornode.com/cart/ That's the best bang for your buck Dedicated Server in Chicago. I think the first month or two is free and then it's $60/mo for a quality server. Talk to Remi and say that Peter sent you.

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby shanemcdonald » 02 Feb 2014

https://portal.vapornode.com/cart/

what is the deal with the free one they offer ?
Any idea ?

shane

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Re: Endless Stability issues of Multicharts on Window server

Postby MAtricks » 02 Feb 2014

BDS 2 is out of stock according to the response I just got from my rep there. I think that was a trial promo or something.

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Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby trader0311 » 30 Nov 2015

Hi,

I would like to install MultiCharts on a virtual server...preferably Amazon's AWS. Is this possible? If people are currently running MultiCharts in AWS can you tell me a little bit about your set up on AWS? They have a ton of tools and many different ways to configure your cloud based server.

Any insights that you could share would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Jeremy Roseberry

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby fbertram » 03 Dec 2015

I have tried several different cloud services. From the ease-of-use point of view, Microsoft Azure wins hands-down. Unfortunately, they are expensive. I didn't like the user experience of AWS at all. What I ended up using is the Google Compute Engine. I am not using it for live trading, but only for backtesting and optimization. A 16-core machine runs at about $1.50 per minute (total including the Windows license, which is charged separately and easily forgotten about). I have my code in Git. My repository is hosted on BitBucket and I am using SourceTree to access it. Google has an RDP plugin for Chrome. That is very convenient to use... but when I am running longer sessions, I use the 'real' remote desktop client.

Anything else you would like to know about the setup?


Cheers, Felix

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby trader0311 » 03 Dec 2015

Thanks for your response Felix.

I have never worked with servers before, so my learning curve is steep.

I was going to give AWS a try because they are offering me a free year of their services. So other than my time, I don't have much to use.

When I look at their offering, I don't even know where to begin? I assume EC2, but there are so many options to configure, that I am at a loss. I really would just like to make sure there are no compatibility or special configuration issues that I need to be aware about before I go down this worm hole :)

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby fbertram » 03 Dec 2015

if I remember correctly, new customers can indeed have one year free service... on the smallest machine they have, which is the t2.micro. That machine comes with a single core (vCPU) and 1 GB of memory. This will not be enough for MultiCharts.

I am not sure what you are trying to do, how many instruments you are trading simultaneously, if you are trying to backtest or to optimize, so it is hard to give you good advise here. But you will sure want a machine that has no less than 16GB of RAM, e.g. an m4.xlarge. That already runs at $0.50 per hour:
http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/

I'd still recommend Google, mostly because it seems best balanced between price and ease of use.

What you do is:
* you create a machine instance, make sure you have one with Windows on it
* you create a disk image from their pre-configured systems. A standard Windows will do, which is probably Windows Server 2012.
* you install MultiCharts in there
* you transfer your algorithms and data


Cheers, Felix

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby trader0311 » 04 Dec 2015

Hi Felix - thanks so much. You have been a great help and I feel like I have a direction now.

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby trader0311 » 04 Dec 2015

What do you think of these instances? They seem to have discounted them?

http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/t2/

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby fbertram » 04 Dec 2015

it is hard to give you advise here as I don't know what you are planning to do. If you are simulating many stocks (let's say 200) over longer periods (let's say 10 years) and higher resolutions (let's say 5 minutes), 8GB won't get you far and you will be running out of RAM. If you are simulating just a few stocks on daily charts, it won't be a problem.

Cheers, Felix

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Re: Using MultiCharts with Amazon AWS

Postby trader0311 » 05 Dec 2015

I am trading just a few symbols on daily bars.

Thank you again for your help!

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Hosting for Multicharts

Postby kengonn » 22 Apr 2016

Due to a spotty Internet connection where I live (in Sydney), and to ensure reliability and consistency, I'm currently investigating into the available hosting options for a Multicharts plus Interactive Brokers API Gateway setup - does anyone has any good recommendations to share? The strategies that I'm looking to deploy are medium-to-low frequency strategies, not (ultra-)high frequency trading strategies that require co-location with a broker/exchange; I just need a reliable, stable platform with Internet connectivity.

I've heard of Steadfast (www.steadfast.net) but it looks quite costly (and it provides co-location which I don't need). I'm open to cloud-based hosts like AWS, as long as reliability and stability are not affected. Does anyone have any recommendations / opinions / feedback for good & cheap hosts? :)

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby hughesfleming » 22 Apr 2016

I have one for the same reasons.

I am using SolVPS to connect to IB via the gateway. I have an 8 Gig / 8 thread VPS (custom config) running Windows 2012 r2. They have servers in the NY area and my ping times are around 2ms. (18ms to Chicago) I have no complaints about up time or connectivity.

I am in Southern Europe on the med and I notice much more UI lag connecting to the US than when I was running a server in the UK but this is to be expected. For fully automated trading, this is not an issue. Test a couple of different locations, one close to IB and one closest to you and see which you prefer.

Alex

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby gilko » 22 Apr 2016

IB broker's servers are in Zurich (Switzerland)...


My 2cts

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby TJ » 22 Apr 2016

IB broker's servers are in Zurich (Switzerland)...


My 2cts
IB has 3 server centers.

1. USA
2. Europe
3. Hong Kong.

You can choose to use any one of the servers you prefer.

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby kengonn » 22 Apr 2016

Thanks for your replies, everyone :).

hughesfleming: your setup looks quite expensive, is there any particular reason why you chose Windows Server 2012 R2 instead of Windows 10?

I'm thinking of a config with 2 or 4 GB of RAM (because 8 GB RAM looks ex ><)

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby TJ » 22 Apr 2016

Thanks for your replies, everyone :).

hughesfleming: your setup looks quite expensive, is there any particular reason why you chose Windows Server 2012 R2 instead of Windows 10?

I'm thinking of a config with 2 or 4 GB of RAM (because 8 GB RAM looks ex ><)
Don't bother with anything less than 8 GB.

Some people might tell you differently. YMMV

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby hughesfleming » 23 Apr 2016

Thanks for your replies, everyone :).

hughesfleming: your setup looks quite expensive, is there any particular reason why you chose Windows Server 2012 R2 instead of Windows 10?

I'm thinking of a config with 2 or 4 GB of RAM (because 8 GB RAM looks ex ><)
Hi Kengonn, Windows 2012 R2 is a much better platform for running Multicharts remotely. Save yourself some headache and just start from there. You could get away with a smaller VPS if your budget is tight but it depends entirely on the characteristics of the code you intend to run. 4 threads and 5 GB is also a workable solution but I would not go lower. As TJ mentioned, 8 GB will have you covered.

Costs are all relative. I used to colocate my own servers and the above configuration is less expensive than what I used to pay for the space in the rack without the upfront costs of buying the servers. From my point of view, this is inexpensive. You also need to look at this as a cost of doing business. If you need it you need it. VPS's have always been seen as a second rate option relative to dedicated servers for trading but that is changing as more professional options are now available.

Another interesting alternative is Microsoft Azure. If your strategies are not 24/7 or you trade equities during regular trading hours, you could in theory save quite a bit of money and still have a decently sized VPS. Amazon AWS is another option worth exploring. Cloud services are good enough for many things but the pricing model breaks down if you run 24/7.

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Re: Recommended hosting for Multicharts.Net and IB Gateway?

Postby The9000 » 06 May 2016

I run MC Portfolio Trader and IQFeed with IB TWS in EC2. It works with 150m bandwidth on both sides. I'm running Windows Server 2012 R2. Highly recommended and very simple to setup.

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AWS Server vs Workspaces

Postby trader0311 » 10 May 2016

Hi,

I would like to install and trade MultiCharts in the cloud. I have two options to do this. I could get Amazon's "EC2 Server" platform or their "Workspaces" platform. Workspaces is a virtual desktop. I have never worked with a server before so there is quite the learning curve. Workspaces is about $65 per month and no learning curve.

I would like your opinions on the best way to set this up so that I am not over my head. Are there advantages to installing and running MC from a Server?

Thanks!

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Re: AWS Server vs Workspaces

Postby JoshM » 12 May 2016

I would like to install and trade MultiCharts in the cloud. I have two options to do this. I could get Amazon's "EC2 Server" platform or their "Workspaces" platform. Workspaces is a virtual desktop. I have never worked with a server before so there is quite the learning curve. Workspaces is about $65 per month and no learning curve.
Your mileage may vary as TJ would say, but I didn't found 'quite a learning curve' with Windows Server (both on AWS and Azure).

It's much like regular Windows but 'slimmed down', and I didn't run into significant issues when running* MultiCharts (and MultiCharts .NET) on them, except that installing was a little bit more elaborate on Windows Server than on a desktop pc, but nothing that Googling didn't help.

(I found learning AWS and reading its documentation much more difficult than using Windows Server).

(I haven't used Workspaces so I can't comment on that).

*: I did not have MultiCharts running 24/7 nor did I trade from the server, so I can't comment on how well that works.

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Re: AWS Server vs Workspaces

Postby geizer » 17 Jun 2016

Hi,

I would like to install and trade MultiCharts in the cloud. I have two options to do this. I could get Amazon's "EC2 Server" platform or their "Workspaces" platform. Workspaces is a virtual desktop. I have never worked with a server before so there is quite the learning curve. Workspaces is about $65 per month and no learning curve.

I would like your opinions on the best way to set this up so that I am not over my head. Are there advantages to installing and running MC from a Server?

Thanks!
Hi Trader0311, Have you checked OVH?

OVH also known as SoYouStart offers server farms either in Europe or in North America with guaranteed bandwidth. Their servers are connected to fiber backbone and have awesome pings to either of the two continents according to people who lease their servers.
http://www.soyoustart.com/ca/en/network.xml
http://www.soyoustart.com/ca/en/datacenters.xml

Kimsufi is the economical solution:
https://www.kimsufi.com/ca/en/servers.xml

If you need more you can choose OVH:
https://www.ovh.com/ca/en/dedicated-servers/

Cheers,


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