Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

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moneymaker
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Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby moneymaker » 27 Apr 2011

Hi,

I traded today live to IB. Unfortunately like in Vers. 6 the trades are not in sync. I have two charts with the same symbol - one autotrading on, one autotrading off. The chart with autotrading on closes the position, where the other chart has still an open position. By the way the position is also open in TS platform. I don't know what MC is doing and why it closes the position, maybe it has to do with the disconnection at night from IB ( Positions Match then is false, previously true).

My settings for autotrading:
Mode Selection = Sync
Show the Assign the Initial Position at the Broker dialogue is checked

I noticed that in the IB API Tab that there are still trades after the choosen session is closed. This could be a problem when a stop is outside regular trading hours is triggered.

Working autotrading should have priority No. 1 and unfortunately like in Vers. 6 autotrading is only recommend with very very very high care. It is really bad, we have a very good charting platform and I'm forced to send the orders from TS with NT to IB (which works perfect).

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Stan Bokov
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Re: Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby Stan Bokov » 28 Apr 2011

I understand your feelings when it comes to trusting your money to a piece of software. Could you clarify exactly what makes this "TS with NT to IB (which works perfect)" better in your opinion that autotrading with MultiCharts? Perhaps we can work on improvements.

"I have two charts with the same symbol - one autotrading on, one autotrading off. The chart with autotrading on closes the position, where the other chart has still an open position."

- The two will not always match. It's hard to say precisely what happened in this case, since I don't know what strategy you are running. What the strategy does depends on the logic in the code, which might be rather sophisticated or rather simple. I can spot one difference between your charts already - on the chart that is ON with Sync mode, only trades that are actually made are shown on the chart. The strategy on the chart that is OFF, all historical 'backtested' trades are shown. If your strategy depends on previous trades to make decisions, that would be one possible explanation for differences.

"By the way the position is also open in TS platform. I don't know what MC is doing and why it closes the position, maybe it has to do with the disconnection at night from IB ( Positions Match then is false, previously true)."

- To be plain, it closes the position because a condition was met in the code, and because of the setting you specified for your strategy. It's a different question whether you wanted it to close or not. If you didn't want it to close, then the script and your settings need to be analyzed. It's nearly impossible to say what is happening in TS or MultiCharts, until your strategy and your exact setup is thoroughly examined. We can take a look at it, and help analyze the issue. Please come to our Live Chat between 6:30 am and 2 pm EST.

moneymaker
Posts: 33
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Germany

Re: Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby moneymaker » 28 Apr 2011

Thank you, I will do contact the support via live chat. With TS to IB via NT I mean that I have no problems with autotrading and this is the only alternative I have with autotrading to IB.

Multicharts woud be perferfect, if you get autotrading running. MC is much faster in Optimizing than TS and I'm really happy with it, but autotrading must be improved. This is the only thing I have to criticize.

I will try to help you and give you the strategy code. Maybe you could find a solution to fix the problem, I guess it has to do with the disconnection of IB.

tekram
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Re: Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby tekram » 28 Apr 2011

..Working autotrading should have priority No. 1 and unfortunately like in Vers. 6 autotrading is only recommend with very very very high care. It is really bad, we have a very good charting platform and I'm forced to send the orders from TS with NT to IB (which works perfect).
Do you know TraderMirk from Germany on the TS forum? :)
Ghost Positions in my account TradeMirkOrder Execution (Automation)Question TS 9.00.00.8505

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Stan Bokov
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Re: Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby Stan Bokov » 29 Apr 2011

Dear moneymaker,

While we admit the possibility of mistakes in the autotrading functionality, hundreds of our customers use autotrading everyday, sometimes without turning it off for weeks. If some serious problem were to exist with autotrading, I believe we wouldn't have those clients, or we would hear about it very quickly, and in more than one post.

Upon analyzing your setup, we discovered a number of differences which are the probable reasons for differences you see between TS and MultiCharts, and between real trading vs backtesting. You possibly have errors in your code, you may be receiving disconnects from your broker, and differences in settings. As any tool, MultiCharts is only capable of doing what you direct it to do.

SUMMARY:
You were not able to receive the same results in TS and Multicharts because your setup was different in several ways:

Regarding comparison of backtested data from TS and MC.
You compared a symbol from the TS data feed in TS to eSignal data feed in MultiCharts. Each data feed is slightly different. You've got different strategy properties in TS and MC. Strategy inputs in TS and MC were not the same.

Regarding synchronous auto trading mode compared to historical backtecting mode.
In SA mode orders are executed on bids and asks. Prices of order execution in SA correspond to real prices. In real trading, you are subject to available volume, and to delays by the broker. In backtesting, the order is assumed to happen instantly and does not take volume into account. In backtesting mode orders are executed on the price on the chart. - i.e. on close.

So the results in these two modes will likely to differ.

Regarding Sync autotrading in TS, could you elaborate how Sync mode in TS allows you to send orders to NT/IB? As far as I am aware, if you are running Sync mode in TS, you can only send orders to TS. For correct analysis you need to make sure you compare apples to apples, everything needs to be the same.

MultiCharts supports freedom in all ways, including freedom of expression on this forum. However, in this case, your discrepancies seem more of a user error, than the program's malfunction. Therefore, I'm editing the subject of this post to reflect the knowledge gained after analyzing your setup, so as not to scare other users into thinking something is seriously wrong with the program.

moneymaker
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Location: Germany

Re: Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby moneymaker » 29 Apr 2011

Dear Stan,

I was asking the support primarely because of the problems with autotrading and I was asking why I receive different results in one strategy. Both problems where total different.
The different results in the strategy comes from different calculations in TS and Multicharts. After changing the code I have the same results in TS and MC. So in this point I agree.

But I compleatly disagree your point in Autotrading. The AMZN and EBAY strategy was based on daily btw. 30 min bases and there should no problem to enter and exit the trades, because the bid ask spread touches the strategyprice. The entry of the two strategies where filled correctly, but the exit in both strategies where not filled correctly. At the next day AMZN where exit too early, Ebay I must close manually. The price was above the exit, so there should no problem to exit the trade. In TS and in MC (autotrading off) the trades where shown correctly. This is defenetively no user or strategy error.Same code in TS same code in MC 99% same results.

I don't care what other traders are doing, if they are satisfy with the trading interface of MC and they have no problems with the disconnection of IB - thats fine. What I want to say that I don't autotrade with MC till the problems are fixed. If you say you have no problem in this part, that's also ok. I use it for backtesting and autotrade from TS with NT. See http://www.NT.com/support/help ... index.html
Part TS Email Interface. I don't want to be blamed here, if you don't want to improve your software and look my post as critizm thats also ok too, so this was my last post here.

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Stan Bokov
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Re: Autotrading still in Vers. 7 Beta 3 not recommend

Postby Stan Bokov » 03 May 2011

Dear Stan,

I was asking the support primarely because of the problems with autotrading and I was asking why I receive different results in one strategy. Both problems where total different.
The different results in the strategy comes from different calculations in TS and Multicharts. After changing the code I have the same results in TS and MC. So in this point I agree.
Dear moneymaker,

We obviously do not want to offend you, we welcome constructive criticism and your questions. You direct questions to us because we know the inner workings of MultiCharts better, and we carefully look into each report, because you may find a bug that slipped by us. In such cases we fix the problem, making the platform better for everyone thanks to your input.

In order to have a meaningful discussion, we need to operate with the same terms. It's important to distinguish between bugs and features. A bug, as we define it, is behavior that is not expected (i.e. technical requirements specify otherwise). Example, in Sync autotrading mode, the order appears on the chart but does not appear at the broker. This is not expected, this is not how it should work.

A feature is when the program acts as it is supposed to according to technical requirements, i.e. the recipe according to which it was built. The bit that's a little counter-intuitive is that it's not a bug if it functions as it was meant to, regardless of whether that behavior is expected by the user, or whether this behavior is 'correct' in principle. When we design features, we make them as they make sense to us, but that doesn't mean every user will see it that way, and we don't always get it 100% right. For exactly that reason we gladly listen to our users, because our platform should be a product of what traders want, i.e. we build what you want.
Example, in Asynch autotrading, the order appears on the chart but does not appear at the broker. In this case, it's not a bug - it's expected. Now, to some people that may look like a bug, but this feature is acting exactly as it's supposed to.
But I compleatly disagree your point in Autotrading. The AMZN and EBAY strategy was based on daily btw. 30 min bases and there should no problem to enter and exit the trades, because the bid ask spread touches the strategyprice. The entry of the two strategies where filled correctly, but the exit in both strategies where not filled correctly. At the next day AMZN where exit too early, Ebay I must close manually. The price was above the exit, so there should no problem to exit the trade. In TS and in MC (autotrading off) the trades where shown correctly. This is defenetively no user or strategy error.Same code in TS same code in MC 99% same results.
I agree there should not be a problem in exiting strategies. The question becomes, what went wrong? Is it a malfunction in the program, or is the script written imprecisely? We will be more than happy to help you discover the missing ingredient, so you can be happy and confident with MultiCharts' autotrading.
I don't care what other traders are doing, if they are satisfy with the trading interface of MC and they have no problems with the disconnection of IB - thats fine. What I want to say that I don't autotrade with MC till the problems are fixed. If you say you have no problem in this part, that's also ok. I use it for backtesting and autotrade from TS with NT. See http://www.NT.com/support/help ... index.html
Part TS Email Interface. I don't want to be blamed here, if you don't want to improve your software and look my post as critizm thats also ok too, so this was my last post here.
We definitely don't want to blame you or anyone, your input is actually greatly appreciated. These discussions help pinpoint areas of improvement, even when things function as they should by design - maybe design can be improved from the trader's point of view. It was not our intention to offend you in any way, and we will be happy to work with you to fix whatever issues you have. However, recommendations and claims which can potentially damage our reputation should be well researched prior to being voiced in a public forum. If it's a program malfunction, we will be happy to fix it. If your code is the problem, we will be happy to help you find out what's missing. If it's an improvement in the design that will be required, the feature request will be considered and potentially implemented in the near future.

- MultiCharts Team


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