Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex traders?

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
User avatar
t-rader
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex traders?

Postby t-rader » 12 Oct 2012

I've gone through the full list of supported brokers and data feeds and as far as I'm aware there is only 1 forex broker that provides both historical data and backfill for live trading. Although this broker charges $99 per month for this historical data and this broker doesn't have the best reputation, a broker I won't trade with.

What does this mean? It means that you will have to either:

- backtest your system on different historical data, meaning your backtest is completely inaccurate to the data you will be trading live with.

- backtest on limited data or with non-tick historical data, making the bar magnify feature pointless or not being able to backtest on enough historical data.

- backtest with good tick historical data but trade with no live data backfill. Trading with no backfill means that if your system references the previous 2 days for its calculations you will have to leave your pc/server running for 2 days before you can even start your system. Then if there is downtime on your pc/server there will be missing data and all your calculations will be off, or you have to wait another 2 days for full data again.

This really makes me wonder if there are any successful forex traders that use Multicharts?

Can other forex trades please advise how they are getting around this issue?

This could all change if Multicharts created a connection to Dukascopy's jforex, which was requested 2 years ago.

Tresor
Posts: 1104
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Tresor » 12 Oct 2012

t-rader wrote:This really makes me wonder if there are any successful forex traders that use Multicharts?

Surely there are successful forex traders. They use MC with Interactive Brokers or MC with MBTrading or use other brokers with MT or some other frontend.

t-rader wrote:Can other forex trades please advise how they are getting around this issue?

Just use Interactive Brokers or with MBTrading with MC or change your frontend.

t-rader wrote:This could all change if Multicharts created a connection to Dukascopy's jforex, which was requested 2 years ago.

Not all would change but at least the selection of forex brokers usable with MC would increase from 2 to 3.

Note there is another broker listed as supported broker, Migbank from Switzerland but ... is not actually supported.

There were financials of Dukascopy and Migbank published recently http://forexmagnates.com/glimpse-into-m ... ty-is-low/ These financials are very basic with aggregate numbers making it hard to assess both businesses' future with a confident level of certainty.

While Dukascopy's financial position and its outlook is positive, Migbank's financial position and outlook is weak (unless they explain +50% drop in trading income and and CHF 11.7 million worth of extraordinary income for first half of this year that came out of the blue + explain other positions) - Migbank might not survive the next 2 years.

FYI I am the guy who timely warned MF Global would collapse viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9023&hilit=MF+Global+dead

Facts known to me show Dukascopy might be a good broker for MC users to trade with. I have no idea why nothing happened for the last two years.

User avatar
t-rader
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby t-rader » 12 Oct 2012

Thanks for your reply Tresor.

I understand that I can trade with another broker but this makes backtesting even less reliable. Shouldn't you backtest and trade with the same data/broker? Am I being too pedantic wanting to backtest and live trade using the same broker?

At the moment I backtest using Dukascopy's data and then I trade live with MB Trading.

Oh yeah I remember reading that thread where you warned of the MF Global collapse. If you don't mind what's the financial stability of MB Trading look like at present?

Tresor
Posts: 1104
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Tresor » 12 Oct 2012

t-rader wrote:If you don't mind what's the financial stability of MB Trading look like at present?


Don't know - I never saw MBT's financial data. Interactive Brokers' position is good though. I would have no problems depositing money with IB.

Zoli
Posts: 89
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Zoli » 12 Oct 2012

Hi,

There would be a third option, LMAX, if you are NOT a US citizen. It is a good broker as spread and execution, the only really annoying problem with them is the freezing charts in MC which I hope they fix soon.
I must say I have to agree with you, I suppose MC is limited at being only a charting software for fx traders, especially the ones that chose to trade through brokers that have deep liquidity and no trading desk. Anyways, many of these brokers don't offer charting package in the first place, only a trade execution front-end.

User avatar
t-rader
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby t-rader » 12 Oct 2012

Lmax only has historical data back to October 2010, hardly a decent amount to backtest a system.

imoneyfish
Posts: 37
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby imoneyfish » 13 Oct 2012

What's wrong with Dukascopy? i am pretty sure you will be happy with them both backtesting and live trading.

User avatar
t-rader
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby t-rader » 13 Oct 2012

imoneyfish wrote:What's wrong with Dukascopy? i am pretty sure you will be happy with them both backtesting and live trading.


Theres no backfill with the current Dukascopy connection. Point 3 in my original post.

- backtest with good tick historical data but trade with no live data backfill. Trading with no backfill means that if your system references the previous 2 days for its calculations you will have to leave your pc/server running for 2 days before you can even start your system. Then if there is downtime on your pc/server there will be missing data and all your calculations will be off, or you have to wait another 2 days for full data again.

imoneyfish
Posts: 37
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby imoneyfish » 13 Oct 2012

t-rader wrote:
imoneyfish wrote:What's wrong with Dukascopy? i am pretty sure you will be happy with them both backtesting and live trading.


Theres no backfill with the current Dukascopy connection. Point 3 in my original post.

- backtest with good tick historical data but trade with no live data backfill. Trading with no backfill means that if your system references the previous 2 days for its calculations you will have to leave your pc/server running for 2 days before you can even start your system. Then if there is downtime on your pc/server there will be missing data and all your calculations will be off, or you have to wait another 2 days for full data again.



Do you have a live account with Dukascopy? Because I knew they ask for $100,000 For fix API? I am going to open $100,000 account with them to trade from MC. get a UPS and if you are a systematic trader, you should let the server run 24*7 anyway, isn't it?

Tresor
Posts: 1104
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Tresor » 13 Oct 2012

imoneyfish wrote:get a UPS and if you are a systematic trader, you should let the server run 24*7 anyway, isn't it?


Wouldn't it be a more stable solution (you know electricity blackouts last sometimes more than your UPS can handle) to rent a server in a hosting company and instal QM on that server and then get server - your PC somehow communicating for real time data and backfill?

Is it feasible at all?

imoneyfish
Posts: 37
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby imoneyfish » 13 Oct 2012

I think Dukascopy is the answer, also LMAX. You wouldn't go back to MT to backtest, will you? Beacuse for me, I don't trust their back test too much. You can always find a way to back testing in MC. And for me, there is nothing wrong with backtesting and live trading in different brokers as long as their spreads are not in a huge difference. And most important thing is your strategy can win in the forward live testing not the back? If you can find a better solution, let us know as well. Thanks.

Zoli
Posts: 89
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Zoli » 13 Oct 2012

I know it's not a broker discussion forum but I thought to give just a little heads'up.
I have been trading in the past with Dukascopy. My intention is really just a little heads'up and not giving/taking stars for brokers.
Just search for "order has been rejected by interbank party" and decide whether they are good for what you are looking for or not.
Hope this helps.

imoneyfish
Posts: 37
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby imoneyfish » 13 Oct 2012

Interesting. I am with dukascopy too. Just manually trading, not automatically. Two years ago I had $10,000 a pip trading go throught instantly and sometime with sllipage of 3 pips in the GBP/USD, never experienced liquidity problems. How big is your position? MIG I used to have £500k account with them and open 10 lots, execution took 10 seconds. Later I figure out MT 4 is just not good if you are a serious trader. I am thinking to change to LMAX for lower spread. But dukascopy never had problems with them.

Tresor
Posts: 1104
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Tresor » 13 Oct 2012

MC team,

what is your rate for developing a connection (data feed and execution engine) between MC and a broker system?

User avatar
t-rader
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby t-rader » 14 Oct 2012

imoneyfish wrote: And for me, there is nothing wrong with backtesting and live trading in different brokers as long as their spreads are not in a huge difference. And most important thing is your strategy can win in the forward live testing not the back? If you can find a better solution, let us know as well. Thanks.


With no central exchange for spot forex each broker can start/finish trading each week slightly different and with brokers in different time zones across the world with some that are affected by DST and some that arent also adds to the confusion when backtesting on one broker and going live on another.

Appreciate your input imoneyfish, you sound like a serious trader with some of the trade sizes you said you have executed!

Zoli wrote:Just search for "order has been rejected by interbank party" and decide whether they are good for what you are looking for or not.


What I like about autotrading and autotrading with MC is that I can see what time my order was generated and then what time it was filled. I also know exactly when my system should execute a trade so if there is any funny business from the broker I'll move to another, or at least try to depending on the brokers MC connects too lol.

I'm not saying Dukascopy is the answer or the best broker, but they do have both a decent amount of historical data and backfill, it would also be nice to have some more brokers to choose from for spot forex traders.

Zoli
Posts: 89
Joined: 12 Sep 2012
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Zoli » 14 Oct 2012

it would also be nice to have some more brokers to choose from for spot forex traders

I couldn't agree more, or simply a connection to Hotspot, Currenex, Integral, Flexxtrade.... because that way the door is opened to brokers that deal with them.
I must say I remember reading somewhere that a connection to Currenex cannot be done because of some limitations re the checking of already sent orders after a drop in connection (sorry if I misunderstood), but am not sure whether they have improved it since then.

User avatar
Henry MultiСharts
Posts: 9066
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Has thanked: 1256 times
Been thanked: 2911 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 15 Oct 2012

Tresor wrote:MC team,

what is your rate for developing a connection (data feed and execution engine) between MC and a broker system?

Please contact your account manager directly regarding this question.

User avatar
t-rader
Posts: 139
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby t-rader » 22 Oct 2012

Tesor where did your post go? I saw it but never had a chance to reply but now that I look you're post is gone....

Tresor
Posts: 1104
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 51 times

Re: Is MC's great backtest engine pointless for forex trader

Postby Tresor » 22 Oct 2012

t-rader wrote:Tesor where did your post go? I saw it but never had a chance to reply but now that I look you're post is gone....


Well... it's gone :D Someone deleted it. Although I admit I was given a chance to repost it.

In the meantime I spoke to my regional office of SEB http://merchantbanking.sebgroup.com/our ... -exchange/

It would be okay to deposit equivalent of $20k of base currency to trade with them and use as primary broker. For example you deposit $20k and can trade USDMXN, USDJPY, etc. You would need to deposit $20k worth of euro to trade euro pairs like EURUSD, EURJPY, etc.

The above works for companies. I think we should have no problems to convince them to work with individuals.


Return to “MultiCharts”