Trendlines

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
maxme
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Trendlines

Postby maxme » 20 Apr 2007

Hi

If I draw a trendline in a chart window based on a symbol, I have always the same trendline that appear also if a change the symbol , why this problem ?

It's possible to solve it because it's impossible to draw trendlines on more than a symbol for window.

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Kate
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Postby Kate » 24 Apr 2007

Maxme,

It is a disputable issue: what we should take as a change point (either symbol change, or datafeed change, or field change) to remove drawing tools from the chart window.

We need to know the opinion of the majority of our customers to reconsider this trendline behavior because so far it is considered to be normal when the drawing tool remains in the chart even if you change the symbol in this chart window.

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Postby iso » 08 Jun 2007

This makes no sense at all. How could one use drawing tools in MC if it leaves all drawings from previous symbols on the chart. Your chart will end up being a complete mess with drawing tools on the screen that have no relevance to that symbol. I have not seen any other charting application function this way.

Please fix this.

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Geoff
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Postby Geoff » 08 Jun 2007

I have not seen any other charting application function this way.

Please fix this.


TS works this way, I like it as when I flip through a number of symbols my trend lines stay in place.

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Postby iso » 08 Jun 2007

Yes for the same symbol trendlines should stay as you change the timeframe but as you change to a new symbol, you should not have trendlines still on the chart from the previous symbol.

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Geoff
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Postby Geoff » 09 Jun 2007

No I didn't say anything about timeframes or resolution. I mean if I draw a trend line on say a YM chart, then change the symbol to ES I will no longer see the line as the price scale is far away, when I change back to YM the trend line is still there and I do not need to redraw it. This is not a bug as it is designed this way.

I am surprised you have not seen any other charting application work this way as everyone that I have used (TS, SC, Quotetracker and Worden TC2000) all work this way and I believe it is considered to be the industry standard.

This does not preclude TS Support adding the ability to clear all drawings when changing symbol as long as it is a globally configurable option to turn it off.

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Postby iso » 09 Jun 2007

You must be mistaken, trendlines will stay on the chart for a specified symbol, so if you draw lines on GLD chart and the move to another chart and come back to GLD later the trendlines will be there (and they should). But when I draw trendlines for instance on the symbol GLD and then move to a symbol that is in the same price range, lets say USO, I have all the lines and drawings from GLD still on the chart when I am looking at USO. I posted an example in another post with screen shots. When I am looking at a symbol I don't want lines from a totally different symbol on the chart, as it is now if I did analysis on 10 symbols all in the same price range I would have a chart will irrelevant drawing tools all over it. I have been using QuoteTracker and TS for the last 7-8 years (I currently use them both) and neither of them behaves in this manner. I will be happy to post additional charts if nessisary. This is an important issue to me because the majority of my trading is based off of drawing tools and it seems that MC is really close to having what I need to move over from TS.

Please look at the attached snaphots of GLD & USO in the following post:

http://forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=3783

I hope this explains it better

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Geoff
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Postby Geoff » 10 Jun 2007

..... trendlines will stay on the chart for a specified symbol.......

I hope this explains it better


Yes it does, I thought you were saying all drawings should be removed when changing symbol, but you meant they should be remembered individually for each symbol.
Sorry if I confused the issue, but maybe this has helped clarify.

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Postby iso » 10 Jun 2007

No problem :) , I find it difficult sometimes to get across the true point while typing.

Regards

vorzo
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Postby vorzo » 21 Feb 2008

Has any resolution been reached with regards to this? I find the issue to be very limiting when looking at more than a handful of stocks.
Thank you.

Maxme,

It is a disputable issue: what we should take as a change point (either symbol change, or datafeed change, or field change) to remove drawing tools from the chart window.

We need to know the opinion of the majority of our customers to reconsider this trendline behavior because so far it is considered to be normal when the drawing tool remains in the chart even if you change the symbol in this chart window.

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Andrew Kirillov
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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 25 Feb 2008

It is not resolved yet.

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Postby iso » 25 Feb 2008

Is there any timeframe on the fix?

Thanks

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Andrew Kirillov
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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 26 Feb 2008

not yet.

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Postby flipflopper » 28 Jun 2008

You must be mistaken, trendlines will stay on the chart for a specified symbol, so if you draw lines on GLD chart and the move to another chart and come back to GLD later the trendlines will be there (and they should). But when I draw trendlines for instance on the symbol GLD and then move to a symbol that is in the same price range, lets say USO, I have all the lines and drawings from GLD still on the chart when I am looking at USO. I posted an example in another post with screen shots. When I am looking at a symbol I don't want lines from a totally different symbol on the chart, as it is now if I did analysis on 10 symbols all in the same price range I would have a chart will irrelevant drawing tools all over it. I have been using QuoteTracker and TS for the last 7-8 years (I currently use them both) and neither of them behaves in this manner. I will be happy to post additional charts if nessisary. This is an important issue to me because the majority of my trading is based off of drawing tools and it seems that MC is really close to having what I need to move over from TS.

Please look at the attached snaphots of GLD & USO in the following post:


I hope this explains it better


I have noticed the same and it is a huge problem for me as well.

Any updates as to when this will be fixed?

bowlesj3
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Why not this.

Postby bowlesj3 » 29 Jun 2008

Why not just put a checkbox (or a set of them) on the parameters for each drawing tool to have it attached to the Symbol or the chart. Obviously trend lines belong only with one symbol since they are usually snapped to the tips of the waves (top bottom or some inside waves top or bottom). However I have trend lines I do not use as true trend lines (since I no longer use trend lines at all) which I want carried over during a futures contract rollover. In this case I would check these as attached to the chart rather than the symbol. All the other drawing tools I use also need to be attached to the chart rather than the symbol. Having to recreate these tools every 3 months during contract rollover is a pain and in Qcharts it is not easy. MC is a god send this way. Essentially for trend lines, this check box would be telling the program that this line is a true trend line or or just a line that has the left and right extension features.

Simple. One checkbox (with the use as default feature available) and every one is happy. However programming wise, maybe not so easy.

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Postby iso » 14 Jul 2008

Hi,

Is there any info on a possible fix for this issue? or timeframe?

Thanks

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Postby TJ » 14 Jul 2008

right click on chart,

select "Remove All Drawings".

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Postby iso » 14 Jul 2008

How does that fix the issue? I have 100-200 symbols that I track and I have drawings on all of them. It is not feasible to erase all of the drawings from each symbol and then draw them back a few minutes later.

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Postby TJ » 14 Jul 2008

use Auto-Trendline.

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Postby iso » 21 Jul 2008

Hi,

Is there any info on a possible fix for this issue? or timeframe?

Thanks

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Marina Pashkova
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Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Jul 2008

Hi iso,

All our drawings are connected to specific coordinates within the chart window and not to the symbols. For now, we are not planning to change this behavior.

Regards.

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Postby flipflopper » 24 Jul 2008

Hi iso,

All our drawings are connected to specific coordinates within the chart window and not to the symbols. For now, we are not planning to change this behavior.

Regards.


Hi Marina,

I would highly recommend adding this feature. I think one of the biggest secrets traders have is that draw tools are extremely reliable and all big traders look at them.

This would be a required feature for any large discretionary trader.

I know your product caters more to system traders but I think you gain many more customers with just slight improvements. Traders normally keep their eye on many things and no trader would want to REDRAW ALL their trend and fib lines EVERYTIME they open a their charts!!!

This is a standard feature on all trading software so I would guess it wouldn't be hard to connect draw tools to symbols rather then charts.

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A work around.

Postby bowlesj3 » 28 Jul 2008

I am going to present three solutions to this problem.

1/ The proper solution is for MC to have the option to attach trend lines ot the chart or the symbol with the ability for the user to set the default via the standard MC methods.

2/ My solution is that I stopped using trend lines at year 6. I use to think they were great. Now I think they suck but that is for my market. Maybe yours is different. I still use them but not for the standard Trend Line use and I like the fact that they do not attach to the symbol. The thing is you may hang on to them if you do not know a better way. To find a better way ask yourself what a trend line really is. It is just a bounce point (a trader dicision line where lots of orders come in to create the bounce). Eventually it gets squeezed or rushed hard and is broken. After that you are looking for the next bounce. So to find the better way pull up all popular idicators and apply this concept looking for bounces. Do it on all charts. Do this only with one symbol. Eventually you will find something that works better. The problem with trend lines is they are subject to user specific inaccuracy. How do you know if your placement is the same as the manipulators (or big traders who have the clout to push prices).

3/ here is the work around programming solution to have MC retain your trend lines if you want to keep using them. I will not write it but I will speck it out. I think it can be done because I think there is a command ot get the next trend line and you can inspect it at that point once you have the ID number (see the commands I extracted below from the EL reference book). You write a study that loops and finds the trend lines if you tell it to do this. It grabs the locations and writes them to a file. The next day on bar one it searches this file and puts them back. The main problem with this idea is if you delete a trend line that was put back if will delete your study. So here is what you do. The study when it runs puts a text box out above price. On every tick it checks if this text box is still above price. If you have moved it below prices (or just moved it) then it knows it has to do something. Okay you do not actually need the text box but moving it from top to bottom i(or just moving it) is a sneaky way to avoid having the study search all trend lines on every single tick. Once it is at the bottom if you move it to the top it once against knows it has to do something. Anyway, when you tell it to do something (ir if you have it search all trend lines on all ticks) it does not matter. Here is the trick. If it detects that a trend line is backwards it deletes it for you. Okay what about new trend lines that you have added during the trading day. Well maybe it is searching from these all day and adding them to its new list and if these are backwards it will delete one of these too. Or maybe these are a different color and you know that you can just delete them the normal way. It is probably best to make it consistent and have it delete them for you if they are backwards. I figure that this could be a tricky little program to write but it could be done I am sure. Another thing that might work is that your new trend lines are a different color. At some point you decide to transfer them to the study so you move the text box. It finds the new lines, writes out the coordinates and then adds its own lines in its color to repace them so that when you delete them you consistently have to put them backwards. It is a tad bit wacky but it is a wacky problem so it needs a whacky solution. Your text box move calls functions. Also you have to be able to move the trend lines but maybe later want to move the text box to have it capture the new location(s) and write these out just incase MC goes down on you. Regarding the text box it may just be better to move it only. Another idea is to put out severl text boxes and have them tell the study to do different things if they have been moved from their last location. If you move a text box just becasue you want to keep it in view on the chard that is fine. It just loops and does nothing. The same study is run on different charts. The file written contains the symbol and the chart size. This way you can maybe even swtich symbols and it would know what to do. how long to write this thing? I would say a week or maybe two. Easy for me to say since I don't use trend lines any more :-) One more thing. You may need to go back and study some other posts I created which have info on how text boxes keep getting deleted and redrawn on each tick until the bar is finished. If this is also happening with trend lines this could make this program a bit more tricky. One tip. Be prepared to grumble a lot when you are writting this and feel much better when it is all done. I know because I wrote something like this but much more difficult about 2 weeks ago.


Example:
The following statements delete the oldest trendline on a price chart drawn by a trading
strategy, analysis technique, or function:
Value1 = TL_GetFirst(1);
Value2 = TL_Delete(Value1);
Note: When the oldest (first) trendline is deleted, the next oldest (second) trendline
becomes the first drawn on the price chart, and so on.

TL_GetNext
You can draw trendlines using trading strategies, analysis techniques (indicators or
studies), or functions, or by using the drawing object tool.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 29 Jul 2008, edited 3 times in total.

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Followup thoughts.

Postby bowlesj3 » 29 Jul 2008

Here are a few more thoughts on that routine for trend lines.

The first thing to do is figure out how to detect that the TL_GetNext loop is to end. I have never use it. So if the documentation does not tell you set up a loop with a print statement and print the output values. It may be that a TL ID of -1 tells you it is finished.

Once that is determined, the control text boxs that you put out could be modified to show you the status of the operations that occur when you manually move them on the chart. For example, when you move the text box it changes color at the start of the TL_GetNext loop then when that is done a box is put around it (a border). The next time the boarder goes away, the color changes then when done the border comes back.

Simple :-)

expect to grow more brain cells by the time this is done. (no joke).

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a correction.

Postby bowlesj3 » 29 Jul 2008

Regarding the initial reading of the text file using the EL collection map command to get the trend line locations, I stated that this should be on bar 1. This is incorrect. You have to set a switch on bar #1 to indicate that on the last bar on the chart that this should be done and the lines are to be placed. This will also put the control text boxes out too. Again there are some tricks to the text box control since if they are being put out on every tick on the last bar of the chart it will keep deleting them and putting them ot there again until the first minute is complete. You have to set these control text back at least 1 bar. Commands you may need are IntraBarPreserve and BarStatus.

I was thinking that if you do not have that many trend lines then maybe there is no need for this control text. These decisions will become clear as the details are hammered out (and the bugs).

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Save them by timer

Postby bowlesj3 » 29 Jul 2008

I guess another way to save the line positions would be just to have the study save to the text file every bar or so based upon a parameter setting.

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Another trick.

Postby bowlesj3 » 29 Jul 2008

It occured to me that if you set this study up so that it scans the trend lines on the chart every minute for example and it finds a line you set backwards for deletion it does not matter if it has previously been written out to the text file, created by you manually or created by the study in the morning at startup. It just has to delete it. So that way you just flip it backward, move it out of the way and let the study take care of it later. It is actually not much harder than deleting a line the normal way. The end result is that as long as you run MC to days end and close it down properly all your line positions will be written out for the next days trading with the proper symbol and chart assigned.

I may not have made it clear about the control text boxes. If you do use them the study assignes them on start up, they have to be on a bar back from the last bar, the study records their ID number and their location and on every tick is checking to see if they have been moved. If moved then the study does whatever you want it to do. Again I have already written code to do this and it works fine. So the only possible problem with getting this whole thing to work is the looping to find the lines (new territory for me).

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GetActive

Postby bowlesj3 » 29 Jul 2008

Gee, I was looking at the help for EL currently on the TS-Support web pages and there is a Text_GetActive as well as a TL_GetActive. I had asked for this before I got the manual but I guess it was there all along.

So you do not even need to move the text. The TL_GetNext also seems to have a parameter to determine where it was placed from (this study, manually, other study). That is great actually.

So it appears this idea is easier than I thought. So all you have to do is scan the trend lines to write to the text file every parameter amount of time or when you decide to click on the text that is out there which signals the same routine which does the write. This way if you forget the study will do it every minute or whatever. While it is doing the loop it either deletes the line or writes it out. So on the next MC restart all your lines are there. Simple.

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Delete immediately.

Postby bowlesj3 » 31 Jul 2008

Here is another idea for deleting Trend Lines with the study. Give it a try, see if it works.

There is a TL_GetActive and Text_GetActive command. So the study puts out a text reading "TLD" and "TLS". Trend Line Delete and TrendLinesSave. The study keeps these text items at the back of the chart above or below price and in sight at all times. YOu can use those highest and lowest commands to place them properly. So deleting a trend line is a simple, highlight the Trend Line then click the "TLD" text. The study has strored the Trend Line ID you just highlighted (when the next tick comes in that is) and then when you click the "TLD" text it will know what line to delete.

Maybe this is harder than just reversing the line. I do don't know.

Anyway, I was looking at the TL_GetNext command and it is -2 that you use to limit the loop that searchs for lines to save to the text file. IF the Text_GetActive command on a tick detects that the "TLS" has been activated it kicks off the loop. Change the color of the TLS to indicate that it has been picked up by a tick. Change its color back once the loop is done.

Why am I thinking this out you might ask? I might have another use for it to clean up old lines I have left on the chart by accident. I can also use some of the ideas to keep lines I use for other reasons in view on the chart.

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Postby RobotMan » 31 Jul 2008

John,

Thanks for writing this all down. Even though I am not using the ideas right at this moment, I have wanted to do this same thing and will probably print this out when you are done.

Bob Perry
Los Altos, CA

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Postby bowlesj3 » 31 Jul 2008

Hi Bob. I don't think there is too much to add actually. I too had thought of these ideas a fair time ago and not having the proper manual did not know if was even possible. I guess someone else thought of these ideas and created the commands.
John.


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