MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?  [SOLVED]

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vindiou
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MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby vindiou » 26 Oct 2016

1) In auto trading mode, everytime an order is generated, the broker is informed that MultiCharts was the software used to generate the order!!!
WHY ?? I DON'T want my broker to know which trading software I use!!

2) How can I set MultiCharts so my broker won't be able to know which trading software I use?

3) Why does Multicharts requires permanent access to its servers for live-trading with a broker?!?
The broker plug-in should only need to connect to the broker and NOT to MultiCharts servers!!
This sounds really suspicious to me...

4) Does MultiCharts get $$$ for order flow?

5) Do you use compression or/and encryption for data transferred between MultiCharts and your servers or can I use WireShark and other background sniffing tools to verify every transferred data?

6) Same question with the broker plug-in.

I'm like "veritasig" (see http://www.multicharts.com/discussion/v ... =1&t=48472 )
Like him, I'm not accusing Multicharts, I simply don't trust anyone too.

I'm pretty sure that if anyone find a holly grail trading system, without any doubt, attempts to hack his computer will happen.

BTW, I can't believe that stop orders & stop/limit orders before MultiCharts Release 10 weren't emulated locally!!!
This obviously helped any broker to trigger your stops and trade against you...
Last edited by vindiou on 18 Nov 2016, edited 1 time in total.

wilkinsw
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby wilkinsw » 26 Oct 2016

All good questions. Definitely trust no one.

Ask your broker for sponsored access to exchanges and ask if your orders are going straight to exchange or not.

I have sponsored access with Marex Spectron as my broker, who hadn't even heard of Multicharts until I introduced them. So I'd be surprised if there are any sort of kick back arrangements (unless there's something I don't know about).

Some brokers, like IB, do internalise stop market orders unless you specify them as stoplimit orders.

A quick test as to the quality of your broker and whether or not they are indeed providing you with direct access (sponsored access) is to ask:

"I'll be deploying an algo I've built to trade Eurex products. Do I need to submit a unique algo flag (regulatory ID hexadecimal)?"

If they say no then go to another broker. Why?............

1) The "algo flag" for Eurex trading is mandatory if you have direct access.
2) Multicharts doesn't currently have "algo flag" functionality (and neither does any other retail focused plaftorm, I've looked at [TT and CQG are compliant]) .
3) Brokers and clearers will not want to be fined by Eurex for sponsoring non-compliant order flow.

Therefore if your broker is letting you trade Eurex with Multicharts algos, then they are either breaking exchange rules or are internalising your order flow (or your orders are hitting their servers before they forward your orders [now compliant], in turn, to the exchanges').

NOW THE GOOD NEWS!

Multicharts will be rolling out, in the next update, the functionality to specify a unique Hex Algo flag (for CQG broker plugin), for each automated algo.

That's my 2 cents: a) asked for direct/sponsored access. b) ask if need to specify Eurex algo flag IDs. It will uncover lots of useful info!

On a seperate note: encrypt all strategies (+ other security tricks) everything on your live trading computer. If you feel you're getting preyed upon, open another account and exploit it!

vindiou
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby vindiou » 26 Oct 2016

Thank you, that's interesting, now I'm looking for precise answers to my questions from MultiCharts.

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TJ
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby TJ » 26 Oct 2016

::
4) Does MultiCharts get $$$ for order flow?
::
If MultiCharts could get $$$ for order flow,
they would be giving their software away for free. :D :D

vindiou
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby vindiou » 26 Oct 2016

Why giving it for free when you can "kill two birds with one stone"?

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby waveslider » 27 Oct 2016

I am mostly certain that MC gets $ for order flow. Just look at how their relationship with CQG operates compared with other brokers/software.
Example #2, ask yourself why MC doesn't interface (refuses to) with CTS t4. spoiler.. CTS has a monthly cap on fees.
Is this bad that they make $ on your trading volume? Maybe but it's not unusual in the industry, there are many other vendors that charge a per contract fee.

It is concerning that orders are routed first through MC servers

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TJ
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby TJ » 27 Oct 2016

I am mostly certain that MC gets $ for order flow. Just look at how their relationship with CQG operates compared with other brokers/software.
Example #2, ask yourself why MC doesn't interface (refuses to) with CTS t4. spoiler.. CTS has a monthly cap on fees.
Is this bad that they make $ on your trading volume? Maybe but it's not unusual in the industry, there are many other vendors that charge a per contract fee.

It is concerning that orders are routed first through MC servers
Can you tell me which 3rd party independent software can interface with CTS?

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby waveslider » 27 Oct 2016

http://www.ctsfutures.com/api/

SC trader, etc.

But more importantly, they have a fix api connection that is evidently well documented and easy to connect to. If it were so easy, then likely MC would have no trouble adding it, and would thereby potentially capture clients who prefer CTS.

It is likely that they could not come to agreement on fees, and that is why MC has repeated refused to provide a connection.

TJ, can you offer an explanation or hypothesis of why the MC broker API costs $15k?

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TJ
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby TJ » 27 Oct 2016

::

TJ, can you offer an explanation or hypothesis of why the MC broker API costs $15k?

I have no idea on the cost.

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arnie
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby arnie » 28 Oct 2016

CQG also has a fee monthly cap of, if I'm not mistaken, around $400.
CTS, like IB, have their own trading platform. They invest on it, they control every single bit of it, any problem, any bug, they have total control over the issue and not depend on 3rd parties to fix them.

SC is the only retail platform that connects to CTS. Why is that? Are they better than every one else? Are they clairvoyant, seeing what no body else's see? Or did they get some deal that no other platform accepts? Is that bad or good?
Who cares!

I don't get, for some reason people like to think that companies are nonprofit organizations and every thing that they might do to generate some type of income is wrong and ultimately bad for their clients. It's really beyond my comprehension.

People want that their software provider continue to develop new tools but for some reason, don't like to pay for them. I ask, how do you want that a company continue to develop and grow if there's no income coming in?

You pay $1500 for a MC license and from that point, you'll receive for life every update that the software will release. For us clients, this is a dream come true, for companies I'm certain what looked a good business in the beginning, because their sales for sure went to the roof, started to be a pretty bad business because it should be quite difficult to develop new tools (ie. paying programmers to code a new tool) and not seeing a steady income coming in every month to pay for that development.

Maybe instead of getting back to charging $$ for every new update, which would generate serious problems with their clients that bought a license with free updates, maybe they found a better way to have a continuous stream of monthly income, by receiving a fee per every contract traded.
I don't know and I couldn't care less.

If through my business, MC is receiving a fee from the broker, I'm a happy client because I'm helping them to continuously develop the platform.
I'm also happy because I'm working with a platform that has a close relationship with the broker which should help maintaining every thing working smoothly, with little hiccups throughout the trading day.

This idea that every one is trying to get you, to get your money, your holy grail system... man, get over it. They couldn't care less about your system. What they do care about is your success, because without it, they will not be payed.

In the end, if you're not happy with your broker, with your trading platform, choose another one. There are plenty in the market from which you can choose.
Question will be, are they working on a different business model than the rest of the market?

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby vindiou » 28 Oct 2016

Arnie, are you speaking on behalf of MultiCharts?

Mr "Henry/Alex" MultiChartsov, can you please answer to my 6 questions?

Thank you

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby arnie » 28 Oct 2016

Arnie, are you speaking on behalf of MultiCharts?

Mr Henry MultiCharts, can you please answer to my 6 questions?

Thank you
This is a public forum so everyone is free to expose their point of view on the matter.
If you don't want people to reply to your questions you should not put them in here. Instead, you should send an email to MC support, use the live chat or call them directly.

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby vindiou » 28 Oct 2016

Why are you becoming aggressive?
The forum isn't public, only buyers of MultiCharts can post.
I will reply to your message after I get official answers from MultiCharts

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TJ
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby TJ » 28 Oct 2016

The brokerage business is one of the MOST regulated business in the World.
They are constantly being monitored and inspected by multiple government agencies in the industry.
All payments and transfers must comply with the rules, regulations, and laws of the land.

It is ok to be diligent; no questions are naive. You learn by asking questions and doing research.

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby arnie » 28 Oct 2016

Why are you becoming aggressive?
The forum isn't public, only buyers of MultiCharts can post.
I will reply to your message after I get official answers from MultiCharts
This is indeed a public forum.
MC did not follow TS rules where only customers have access to their forum.
In here, customers and non customers have free access.
People that might be thinking about buying a license are free to come here and ask all the questions they want to ask before invest in the platform.

I'm not being aggressive, I just stated the obvious, you can contact MC support through email, live chat or telephone if you don't want or like people to reply to your questions.
If you think this is being aggressive... I rest my case.

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby vindiou » 28 Oct 2016

Non-customers cannot create an account on this forum to be able to post.
I never said that you cannot reply, you are also free not to reply.
I just want official public answers from MultiCharts.

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby JoshM » 28 Oct 2016

In here, customers and non customers have free access.
People that might be thinking about buying a license are free to come here and ask all the questions they want to ask before invest in the platform.
Don't mean to go too much off-topic, but non-customers unfortunately may not post here on the forum. I, for instance, repeatedly hear from AMP customers (that use the MultiCharts version provided by AMP) that they cannot post on the forum since they're not direct consumers of MultiCharts.

So unfortunately, people cannot come here and ask questions before buying the platform. I thought this was possible in the past, and would welcome it getting back: it makes the forum more active without adding much additional work for MultiCharts Support (since they now are considerably less active on the forum than in the past).

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby JoshM » 28 Oct 2016

I never said that you cannot reply, you are also free not to reply.
I just want official public answers from MultiCharts.
If you just want an official reply from MultiCharts, it's in your best interest to keep this topic as positive and constructive as possible. It wouldn't be the first time that topics like these are locked or removed, and so far your insinuations and critique (while understandable from a certain standpoint) don't make this the kind of thread that's open for long.

If we keep it positive and friendly, you're much more likely to get satisfying answers to your questions.

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby vindiou » 28 Oct 2016

If the moderator of this forum ban this topic before I get any clear public answers to my legitimate questions, then the logic conclusion would be that nobody could trust MultiCharts.

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arnie
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby arnie » 28 Oct 2016

Don't mean to go too much off-topic, but non-customers unfortunately may not post here on the forum. I, for instance, repeatedly hear from AMP customers (that use the MultiCharts version provided by AMP) that they cannot post on the forum since they're not direct consumers of MultiCharts.

So unfortunately, people cannot come here and ask questions before buying the platform. I thought this was possible in the past, and would welcome it getting back: it makes the forum more active without adding much additional work for MultiCharts Support (since they now are considerably less active on the forum than in the past).
That's news to me because I remember a discussion (years ago?) about how MC forum was opened to non customers and how that was bringing a lot of people that the only interest was just post spam messages.
Maybe due to those problems they locked it to non customers.
Man, that was years ago now that I'm thinking about it...

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Mark Brown » 23 Oct 2018

interesting thread is there any update on the disclosure of this topic?

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby Smoky » 23 Oct 2018

If the moderator of this forum ban this topic before I get any clear public answers to my legitimate questions, then the logic conclusion would be that nobody could trust MultiCharts.
@Vindiou

You can be happy, for the same post few years ago i was banned ! not only my topic !

this means that MC team start to listen customers, now post reply would be better, i speak about official Team, not the best answering machine in this forum.

my two cts

i think that those questions are legitimate because MC customer want to control what Multicharts software do.

for exemple yesterday MC12 start threads with LMAXhost and Bitconexhost names WHY ? only my broker profil is activate in quotemanager !
i see also many MXprivate acces, WHY i don't need curency converter, i trade futur dax and all is in EUR !

@Vindiou it will be interesting to use wirehack to have answers, and analyse transfers when an order is send...

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Smoky
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Smoky » 23 Oct 2018

1) In auto trading mode, everytime an order is generated, the broker is informed that MultiCharts was the software used to generate the order!!!
WHY ?? I DON'T want my broker to know which trading software I use!!
Your right "RGPD" come ! and this data is private my broker don't have to know witch software i use, and MC customers should be able to customize this.

@wilkinsw no need to protect your stategy crypt it or obfuscate your code, if someone catch your order flow ...

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TJ
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby TJ » 23 Oct 2018

1) In auto trading mode, everytime an order is generated, the broker is informed that MultiCharts was the software used to generate the order!!!
WHY ?? I DON'T want my broker to know which trading software I use!!
Your right "RGPD" come ! and this data is private my broker don't have to know witch software i use, and MC customers should be able to customize this.

@wilkinsw no need to protect your stategy crypt it or obfuscate your code, if someone catch your order flow ...

IIRC, this is a requirement of the exchange/SEC, your broker is simply complying with the regulators.
This was implemented after one of the flash-crashes a few years ago.

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Smoky
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Smoky » 23 Oct 2018

@TJ

we speak here about multicharts order sentence not about Broker, Multicharts can let customer customise and stay in rules.

i don't see any requirement in TWS API about this ....

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 24 Oct 2018

1) In auto trading mode, everytime an order is generated, the broker is informed that MultiCharts was the software used to generate the order!!! WHY ?? I DON'T want my broker to know which trading software I use!!
If the broker's API access agreement stipulates that it needs the source of the order specified, then the platform name is disclosed to the broker. If it is not required, then it is not specified.
2) How can I set MultiCharts so my broker won't be able to know which trading software I use?
This is not a user defined setting, you cannot change that.
3) Why does Multicharts requires permanent access to its servers for live-trading with a broker?!? The broker plug-in should only need to connect to the broker and NOT to MultiCharts servers!! This sounds really suspicious to me...
The MultiCharts DRM system is present in each MultiCharts product as a means of our intellectual property protection that helps us fight against software piracy which allows for earning revenue for continued product development. There are no MultiCharts servers that keep/transfer your personal information. All modules, configuration parameters and user data (workspaces, studies, data) are kept on your computer and are not sent anywhere from it. Personal information is stored in a binary format and cannot be decoded. The data/broker connection is performed from your computer directly to your data/broker servers using the vendor's API.
4) Does MultiCharts get $$$ for order flow?
No.
5) Do you use compression or/and encryption for data transferred between MultiCharts and your servers or can I use WireShark and other background sniffing tools to verify every transferred data?
The communication with the DRM system is encrypted.
6) Same question with the broker plug-in.
The broker's API does the data transfer, so it depends on it.
BTW, I can't believe that stop orders & stop/limit orders before MultiCharts Release 10 weren't emulated locally!!!
This obviously helped any broker to trigger your stops and trade against you...
Each broker works differently. The information related to each plugin implementation is available in the Wiki section: https://www.multicharts.com/trading-sof ... r_Profiles

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationtionshi

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 24 Oct 2018

for exemple yesterday MC12 start threads with LMAXhost and Bitconexhost names WHY ? only my broker profil is activate in quotemanager !
It can happen when you use a symbol listed under these data feeds, or try to add a new symbol for them, or if you call the QuoteManager->Tools->Data Sources window.
i see also many MXprivate acces, WHY i don't need curency converter, i trade futur dax and all is in EUR !
This means that you have the Currency Conversion feature enabled somewhere: https://www.multicharts.com/trading-sof ... Conversion

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Smoky » 28 Oct 2018

thanks Henry for yours answers,

can You give us how many time in 24 hours MC connect to yours servers ?
If through my business, MC is receiving a fee from the broker, I'm a happy client because I'm helping them to continuously develop the platform.
I'm also happy because I'm working with a platform that has a close relationship with the broker which should help maintaining every thing working smoothly, with little hiccups throughout the trading day.
it's not a problem for me, i agree, several years ago i ask MC Team to explain their business model, because every years they have news customers, what append if in the futur new customer don't come ? IF multicharts company stop, with drm servers out, we will loose our licence ...

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 31 Oct 2018

thanks Henry for yours answers, can You give us how many time in 24 hours MC connect to yours servers ?
DRM check is done every minute.

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?

Postby Smoky » 01 Nov 2018

and if MC12 loose DRM it still working in real time for 30 minutes ? right ?

thanks for your time

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Re: MultiCharts privacy, security and broker relationship?  [SOLVED]

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 02 Nov 2018

and if MC12 loose DRM it still working in real time for 30 minutes ? right ? thanks for your time
That is correct.


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