Problems with the speed of plotting charts? Feedback needed.

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
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Marina Pashkova
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Problems with the speed of plotting charts? Feedback needed.

Postby Marina Pashkova » 17 Feb 2009

Have you had any experience with charts plotting very slowly in MC? Does your set up involve multiple charts with drawings and indicators applied? Has this setup caused the program to work very slowly and your computer not to be immediately responsive?

The reason I am asking is that for the past few weeks, among other things we have been working on improving the efficiency of chart plotting. There have been two major improvements:

1. General plotting algorithms.
2. Re-drawing charts with trend lines or text applied.

In the current versions of MultiCharts, if you have a drawing, for example, a trend line, the whole chart area will be re-drawn on every new tick – even when there are no changes in the position of the trend line. If you have multiple charts, these unnecessary re-drawings result in a heavy workload on your computer resources. The situation is further aggravated if you have multiple screens.

We have now implemented analysis techniques that allow the program to only re-draw those areas of charts that really change. The resulting plotting behavior is at least 5 times more efficient.

These improvements are now being tested in our internal versions of MultiCharts. If you could tell us if you have experienced any charting speed issues and give us information about your specific setups we could use your feedback to create test cases reflecting real-life scenarios.

Your feedback would be highly appreciated!
Last edited by Marina Pashkova on 06 Mar 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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RobotMan
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Postby RobotMan » 17 Feb 2009

Hi Marina,

This is really great to hear!
Ever since my TS days, I try and set any indicators to not "update every tick" because of the unnecessary load on the cpu, but I did not know there was a graphics problem with redraws (probably because I use so few indicators).

In spite of my occasional sarcasm, I am constantly amazed at the improvement of MC over the past 3 years and TSS patience and dedication for customer support and improvement of their products' performance and usability.

brodnicki steven
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Postby brodnicki steven » 17 Feb 2009

Marina : Will this faster charting be in the upcoming ver 5.3 ?

bowlesj3
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Postby bowlesj3 » 17 Feb 2009

Hi Marina,

I have the setup you describe with 9 charts, lots of text, a fair number of study created lines (trend lines but not used as true trend lines) and lots of plot lines on subchart #2. I also have arrows put out by studies and later used as control feeds to MC's EL as well.

I am still on MC 2.1.999.999 because MC 3.1 beta did exactly what you say (way beyond tolerance). Specifically it very frequently aborted or bogged down to a crawl then aborted. I also have done tests that prove that text, trend lines and arrows are redrawn on every tick until barstatus = 2 but after that they are not (at that point they can be moved using setlocation). Some of my stuff is moved on every tick on purpose and some is left alone after barstatus=2. Every study is updated on every single tick and it has to be.

I could send you part of my stuff for testing but It would be tricky since I control it all from GVs externally. However I could hard code all GV input so the basic setup could be used if you want to feed MC a fairly heavy load as you describe. I would default everything so you can just apply the studies as is. I can create a parameter at the very front of every study that controls the recalculation command. This parameter would be the number of bars that a racalculation is to be issued (default 10 or 15). Regarding the arrow studies I would exclude them. The basic setup I send you would be designed to load as heavily as I do during the day (or more heavily if you set the recalculation parameter for more frequent recalculations). MC 2.1.999.999 seems to handle what I give it with occasional tolerable study delays. So it could be used as a benchmark of sorts.

If you want something like this to test with, let me know. If this is done and you tell me that the newer version is running faster than MC 2.1.999.999 maybe you can entice me to upgrade. For now I am assuming all releases past MC 2.1.999.999 abort just like MC 3.1 beta did repeatedly every day for several weeks. For now I am content with my setup as is.

Thanks,
John.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 18 Feb 2009, edited 24 times in total.

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Postby geizer » 17 Feb 2009

My current workspace setup is fairly light:

Three chart windows with lots of trend lines as well as horizontal support and resistance lines. Although I am not a fun of many indicators on my charts I might have a few displayed once in a while. All this stuff is displayed over two monitors. This layout is not yet final, since I am planning to have more workspaces loaded simultaneously (2..3). Until that happens i am probably fine .

The desired future workspace setup will also include scanner window(s) in a separate workspace with hundred symbols and another workspace with two dozen 15 min charts.
--
In my experience I never had concern in regards to how fast the charts drawn. This partially because my workspace layout is simple, but also the hardware I use is fast enough to handle the load (Core 2 Duo 2.53Ghz /6Mb L2 Cash 1066FSB with DDR3 RAM. The graphics - mobile Geforce 9400M.
95% of the time I run Multicharts in Windows Virtual machine under MAC OS X using Vmware. All together everything runs satisfactory. Taking into consideration that hardware is shared between MAC OS X and Windows XP, I would say availability of the CPU resources were rather good or very good. I do notice, however an impact on Multicharts graphics performance - I would rate it on at a lower end of the benchmark, but again - I always thought this was because of an integrated graphics, yet the virtualized environment - that's expected.

But..., (now the good part)
When I tried the (build 2032) for testing, my first impression was Wow! - something was definitely different. I noticed the speed improvement immediately, just was not certain where the catch was.
The chart scrolls very smooth. Charts handle way faster now - a smooth and bumpless to scroll. Never know until you compare :)

Thank you very much TS Support Team. This improvement should benefit everyone with no exception. Definitely an advantage. I am sure everyone will appreciate it.


--
Pavel
Last edited by geizer on 21 Feb 2009, edited 1 time in total.

crazy_phil
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Postby crazy_phil » 19 Feb 2009

Dear Marina,

Yes, my set up involves a pretty number of charts with huge amount of indicators and especially one that is really cpu consuming

To give you a concrete example, opening MC in the morning is a true 10 mins Job. following 3 futures and 3 forex pairs

But, in real time I didn't see any slow down (heu !!, only when my memory manager decides to free some memory)

I use 3 programmable platforms and yours have always been the fastest and the less memory consuming !!

I can even say that part of my program cannot run real time on one of the 3.

But any improvement is welcome as I'm coming to full automate trading and I think I will enlarge the number of traded instruments.

I apologize for my poor English !!!

Keep going On, it's a fantastic Job you're doing

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Postby miltonc4 » 20 Feb 2009

Hi Marina
Over past few weeks I have been using and plotting a large number of vertical trendlines, 4 instances of symbols inserted in a chart (x 4 or more charts per workspace),some instances where 4 indicators inserted into data 1, chart drawing Vertical lines in each indicator,plus some other indicators

The cpu seems to run 20 - 60 %,but what I have noticed is that the mouse does not always highlight the object on ist click as it used to,now takes several clicks to connect to the object,and any manually placed vertical lines wont highlight easily,sometimes taking up to 20 - 40 seconds to react after clicking
Its as if MC is waiting for something to finish before it will allow next command,and at times real time chart bars appear on one chart before another and data loads in blocks at other times rather than point by point as they happen

Dont think its a CPU overload so much,as it is a occurance when drawing lots of Timelines by ELa and manually

I now all this started when large requirements for drawing trendlines on the charts commenced,so I am sure this is the cause,as it never happened previously.Does not happen in other workspaces that dont have these lines


Only mentioned it because I saw your post
My setup must cause the program to work very slowly and computer is not immediately responsive to mouse commands
Update eack tick is "on"
Vers5 Beta2 (build1781)
regards
Milton

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Postby bowlesj3 » 21 Feb 2009

In my case, as a result of my MC 3.1 beta problems mentioned above, I have decided I will not upgrade until the very last release I can use for no additional cost and also not until I am set up to completely ghost copy my entire disk drives and return them so I can return MC 2.1.999.999 very quickly if I have to. I have a fair bit of info obtained from the omega-list on this topic to help me get started on selecting a disk copy product and a strategy. When the time comes I may create a forum thread on this since it is very useful information for traders to have and sharing the latest info is better.

Again, MC 2.1.999.999 is very good for my needs at the moment and these days rarely bombs.

drwar
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Postby drwar » 21 Feb 2009

Marina
Use Two charts
Chart 1: Two data symbols ES 343 vol hidden and ES 2401 vol
apply Traderlogic Trading primes add-on to 343 vol in Subchart #1
apply Traderlogic Erg & trending Primes add-on to 2401 in Subchart #2

Chart 2: ES 343 vol Apply LMT add-on in Subchart 1 and Traderlogic Erg Only in
Subchart #2

Use at least 30 days back of data for all symbols. This should give it a good workout.

J~

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Postby aljafp » 21 Feb 2009

In my case, as a result of my MC 3.1 beta problems mentioned above, I have decided I will not upgrade until the very last release I can use for no additional cost and also not until I am set up to completely ghost copy my entire disk drives and return them so I can return MC 2.1.999.999 very quickly if I have to. I have a fair bit of info obtained from the omega-list on this topic to help me get started on selecting a disk copy product and a strategy. When the time comes I may create a forum thread on this since it is very useful information for traders to have and sharing the latest info is better.

Again, MC 2.1.999.999 is very good for my needs at the moment and these days rarely bombs.


I have to agree with bowlesj3... MC 2.1.999.999 is very stable for me.

Stability is much more important than state of the art features....

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Marina Pashkova
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Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

Hi Marina,

This is really great to hear!
Ever since my TS days, I try and set any indicators to not "update every tick" because of the unnecessary load on the cpu, but I did not know there was a graphics problem with redraws (probably because I use so few indicators).

In spite of my occasional sarcasm, I am constantly amazed at the improvement of MC over the past 3 years and TSS patience and dedication for customer support and improvement of their products' performance and usability.


Hi Bob,

In many cases not having indicators update on every tick simply will not work. For example, if you have a tick countdown indicator that will only work correctly with the 'update on every tick' option enabled.

In the upcoming MultiCharts version, you will not have to make these kinds of compromises. You will be able to have your indicators update on every tick and have a very low CPU load.

Regards.

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Marina Pashkova
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Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

Marina : Will this faster charting be in the upcoming ver 5.3 ?


Yes, Steven. These improvements will be available in the upcoming MC 5.0 beta 3.

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Marina Pashkova
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Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

Hi Marina,

I have the setup you describe with 9 charts, lots of text, a fair number of study created lines (trend lines but not used as true trend lines) and lots of plot lines on subchart #2. I also have arrows put out by studies and later used as control feeds to MC's EL as well.

I am still on MC 2.1.999.999 because MC 3.1 beta did exactly what you say (way beyond tolerance). Specifically it very frequently aborted or bogged down to a crawl then aborted. I also have done tests that prove that text, trend lines and arrows are redrawn on every tick until barstatus = 2 but after that they are not (at that point they can be moved using setlocation). Some of my stuff is moved on every tick on purpose and some is left alone after barstatus=2. Every study is updated on every single tick and it has to be.

I could send you part of my stuff for testing but It would be tricky since I control it all from GVs externally. However I could hard code all GV input so the basic setup could be used if you want to feed MC a fairly heavy load as you describe. I would default everything so you can just apply the studies as is. I can create a parameter at the very front of every study that controls the recalculation command. This parameter would be the number of bars that a racalculation is to be issued (default 10 or 15). Regarding the arrow studies I would exclude them. The basic setup I send you would be designed to load as heavily as I do during the day (or more heavily if you set the recalculation parameter for more frequent recalculations). MC 2.1.999.999 seems to handle what I give it with occasional tolerable study delays. So it could be used as a benchmark of sorts.

If you want something like this to test with, let me know. If this is done and you tell me that the newer version is running faster than MC 2.1.999.999 maybe you can entice me to upgrade. For now I am assuming all releases past MC 2.1.999.999 abort just like MC 3.1 beta did repeatedly every day for several weeks. For now I am content with my setup as is.

Thanks,
John.


Hi John,

I would suggest trying MC 5.0. Not only it has more features but it is also much more reliable than 2.1, or 3.0 and 4.0. It is much faster too.

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Marina Pashkova
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Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

My current workspace setup is fairly light:

Three chart windows with lots of trend lines as well as horizontal support and resistance lines. Although I am not a fun of many indicators on my charts I might have a few displayed once in a while. All this stuff is displayed over two monitors. This layout is not yet final, since I am planning to have more workspaces loaded simultaneously (2..3). Until that happens i am probably fine .

The desired future workspace setup will also include scanner window(s) in a separate workspace with hundred symbols and another workspace with two dozen 15 min charts.
--
In my experience I never had concern in regards to how fast the charts drawn. This partially because my workspace layout is simple, but also the hardware I use is fast enough to handle the load (Core 2 Duo 2.53Ghz /6Mb L2 Cash 1066FSB with DDR3 RAM. The graphics - mobile Geforce 9400M.
95% of the time I run Multicharts in Windows Virtual machine under MAC OS X using Vmware. All together everything runs satisfactory. Taking into consideration that hardware is shared between MAC OS X and Windows XP, I would say availability of the CPU resources were rather good or very good. I do notice, however an impact on Multicharts graphics performance - I would rate it on at a lower end of the benchmark, but again - I always thought this was because of an integrated graphics, yet the virtualized environment - that's expected.

But..., (now the good part)
When I tried the (build 2032) for testing, my first impression was Wow! - something was definitely different. I noticed the speed improvement immediately, just was not certain where the catch was.
The chart scrolls very smooth. Charts handle way faster now - a smooth and bumpless to scroll. Never know until you compare :)

Thank you very much TS Support Team. This improvement should benefit everyone with no exception. Definitely an advantage. I am sure everyone will appreciate it.


--
Pavel


Hi Pavel,

Your case is exactly where you will notice improvements once we release and you migrate to MC 5.0 beta 3 (the internal version that you have still uses the old plotting mechanism). With the same integrated graphics, your charts with drawings will use way less CPU. You will notice the difference right away.

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Marina Pashkova
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

Dear Marina,

Yes, my set up involves a pretty number of charts with huge amount of indicators and especially one that is really cpu consuming

To give you a concrete example, opening MC in the morning is a true 10 mins Job. following 3 futures and 3 forex pairs

But, in real time I didn't see any slow down (heu !!, only when my memory manager decides to free some memory)

I use 3 programmable platforms and yours have always been the fastest and the less memory consuming !!

I can even say that part of my program cannot run real time on one of the 3.

But any improvement is welcome as I'm coming to full automate trading and I think I will enlarge the number of traded instruments.

I apologize for my poor English !!!

Keep going On, it's a fantastic Job you're doing


Hi phil,

The improvements that I mentioned above are to do with real-time chart plotting when you have drawings applied. In your case, to understand why it takes so much time to bring up charts we would need to know how much data you are requesting, what chart resolutions you are plotting, and what data feed you receive your quotes from.

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Marina Pashkova
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

Marina
Use Two charts
Chart 1: Two data symbols ES 343 vol hidden and ES 2401 vol
apply Traderlogic Trading primes add-on to 343 vol in Subchart #1
apply Traderlogic Erg & trending Primes add-on to 2401 in Subchart #2

Chart 2: ES 343 vol Apply LMT add-on in Subchart 1 and Traderlogic Erg Only in
Subchart #2

Use at least 30 days back of data for all symbols. This should give it a good workout.

J~


Hi Jerry,

How many days of data you have in your charts does not influence plotting speed.

With your described setup you will notice considerable improvements when you migrate to MC 5.0 beta 3.

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Marina Pashkova
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

In my case, as a result of my MC 3.1 beta problems mentioned above, I have decided I will not upgrade until the very last release I can use for no additional cost and also not until I am set up to completely ghost copy my entire disk drives and return them so I can return MC 2.1.999.999 very quickly if I have to. I have a fair bit of info obtained from the omega-list on this topic to help me get started on selecting a disk copy product and a strategy. When the time comes I may create a forum thread on this since it is very useful information for traders to have and sharing the latest info is better.

Again, MC 2.1.999.999 is very good for my needs at the moment and these days rarely bombs.


I have to agree with bowlesj3... MC 2.1.999.999 is very stable for me.

Stability is much more important than state of the art features....


Hi aljafp,

MC 5 does not simply have more features. It is also much faster and more reliable than the preceding versions, including MC 2.1.

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Marina Pashkova
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Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 24 Feb 2009

Hi Marina
Over past few weeks I have been using and plotting a large number of vertical trendlines, 4 instances of symbols inserted in a chart (x 4 or more charts per workspace),some instances where 4 indicators inserted into data 1, chart drawing Vertical lines in each indicator,plus some other indicators

The cpu seems to run 20 - 60 %,but what I have noticed is that the mouse does not always highlight the object on ist click as it used to,now takes several clicks to connect to the object,and any manually placed vertical lines wont highlight easily,sometimes taking up to 20 - 40 seconds to react after clicking
Its as if MC is waiting for something to finish before it will allow next command,and at times real time chart bars appear on one chart before another and data loads in blocks at other times rather than point by point as they happen

Dont think its a CPU overload so much,as it is a occurance when drawing lots of Timelines by ELa and manually

I now all this started when large requirements for drawing trendlines on the charts commenced,so I am sure this is the cause,as it never happened previously.Does not happen in other workspaces that dont have these lines


Only mentioned it because I saw your post
My setup must cause the program to work very slowly and computer is not immediately responsive to mouse commands
Update eack tick is "on"
Vers5 Beta2 (build1781)
regards
Milton


Hi Milton,

Yours is exactly the case that is addressed by our plotting algorithm optimization. When the program stops being immediately responsive, it means that it doesn't have enough resources. This can result in the program not being able to process incoming quotes right away and to promplty plot them on a chart. With new chart drawing mechanism, you should not have these problems any longer.

drwar
Posts: 218
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Postby drwar » 24 Feb 2009

[quote]
Hi Jerry,

How many days of data you have in your charts does not influence plotting speed.

With your described setup you will notice considerable improvements when you migrate to MC 5.0 beta 3.[/quote]

Marina
Maybe not Plotting speed but The number of days back does seem to effect CPU load. One of the things we have always done to lessen the cpu load when it gets to high is to pare back the number of days back. Maybe this is no longer true. I will retest this when the new release comes out.

J~


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