[request] - a better way for us to manage our own studies

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
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arnie
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[request] - a better way for us to manage our own studies

Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

Hi.

I've just installed Beta 6 and I finally can backfill IQFeed data with an acceptable speed :)

I'd like to propose a new way to manage our own studies.

I've created a new folder in PLE to put all my own studies, but everytime I create a new one, it's saved in the Indicators folder instead of the one I've created. Can you add the option for us to choose the folder in which we want it to be saved and also to import new studies? This would be very helpful.

Another thing that's a bit annoying is the fact that new created studies aren't put in alphabetic order. Though this being a good thing when our studies are in the indicators folder (since they are always saved at the end of the list), it isn't that good of a thing when we save them in our own folder. I'm always going back and forth to find the study I want. :(

Now, when we want to insert a study in MC, all studies are in alphabetic order :o So MC puts them in alphabetic order, but PLE don't :?

Again, it would be nice to have a way for MC to show studies by folders instead of join them all together. It would be easier for us to find the studies since we know the folder in which they are.

Please note that when I talk about studies I'm also including signals and add-ons.

Regards,
Fernando

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Postby TJ » 25 Apr 2009

1. I like the idea of having folder management in the PowerEditor.
over the years, I have accumulated many indicators/functions.
It takes an additional 30 mins to install an upgrade now. LOL

I don't need 90% of the indicators/functions, but I am afraid to delete any of them, especially the functions. I would move the seldom used indicators to a secondary folder for archive purposes.




p.s. you can sort the indicators by clicking on the column heading.
click on the name, and the indicators will be sorted in alphabetical order.
click on the date, and the indicators will be sorted chronologically.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

I am not sure what is the best since each person may have their best method. However this work around may help someone somewhere out there. All my studies and functions start with "A_My_whatever". At least they are grouped and easy to find alphabetically up near the front from either the editor or MC for insertion. This solves the problem enough that I can free my mind from it. This is generally the approach I take, that being to come up with a work around so I can get on with the highest priority business of trading as fast as possible. It is a lot easier than waiting for an MC change to come through and ultimately we almost always have no choice anyway since the change may never come. Sometimes the workaround is way better in the end. As a perfect example, I asked for the ability to save data from the hint box to GVs so I could manually decide where the swing highs and lows are rather than run the risk of trusting computer code to do it. My work around at this point is far better than My original request.

I agree with TJ. Sorting by date/time helps at times if you are in the process of changing something.

I backup all studies when ever I make a change too using a date and time stamp and comment. Lots of backups kept for at least a month or two.

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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

1. I like the idea of having folder management in the PowerEditor.
over the years, I have accumulated many indicators/functions.
It takes an additional 30 mins to install an upgrade now. LOL

p.s. you can sort the indicators by clicking on the column heading.
click on the name, and the indicators will be sorted in alphabetical order.
click on the date, and the indicators will be sorted chronologically.


Hi TJ.

I haven't noticed yet that I could sort the studies by name :oops:

How could I've missed that :? :oops:

Well, one problem solved :) Thanks

But the other ones continue to exist, in PLE we need to have the option to save an indicator to a specific folder and in MC we need to have the possibility to have the indicators displayed by folders instead of all together in the 3 default folders.

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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

I am not sure what is the best since each person may have their best method. However this work around may help someone somewhere out there. All my studies and functions start with "A_My_whatever". At least they are grouped and easy to find alphabetically up near the front from either the editor or MC for insertion. This solves the problem enough that I can free my mind from it. This is generally the approach I take, that being to come up with a work around so I can get on with the highest priority business of trading as fast as possible. It is a lot easier than waiting for an MC change to come through and ultimately we almost always have no choice anyway since the change may never come. Sometimes the workaround is way better in the end. As a perfect example, I asked for the ability to save data from the hint box to GVs so I could manually decide where the swing highs and lows are rather than run the risk of trusting computer code to do it. My work around at this point is far better than My original request.

I agree with TJ. Sorting by date/time helps at times if you are in the process of changing something.

I backup all studies when ever I make a change too using a date and time stamp and comment. Lots of backups kept for at least a month or two.


Yes, using a specific name and then sorting it can put our studies at the top of the list, but with time, as TJ specified, the list starts to get to big for a proper management and dividing them by folders it's the best way.

And although you're able to manage them by folder in PLE, you cannot in MC and at the end you're stuck with the same problem.

But you're right in one thing, until they decide to implement the request itself, we need to find a way to overcome the problem.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

Here is one other consideration. Once you are done your system (your trading methods) you rarely change the studies or look at them. I am there now (I am about as good as I will ever get I figure). I look at my EL code maybe every 2 or 3 months and normally just to look something up.

I think one has to get to this point, say good enough is good enough and start living a life outside trading. I personally am not out to get rich, just to enjoy what I do.

What I am saying is EL coding is not infinite. I actually had my strategy fully completed and manually tested using Qcharts long before I bought MC. Qcharts has no programming language. I never used any computer backtesting at all and feel no need to test it. MC for me is just a workload reduction tool.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

I don't now if it was mentioned but you can pull up the list of studies on a chart using "right click" and "format studies" then from that list highlight the one you want and click "Open script". It starts up the editor for you and you are right there.

Another thing is you can right click on the function in your scripted study and it will at the very top of that menu allow you to open that function's script.

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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

Here is one other consideration. Once you are done your system (your trading methods) you rarely change the studies or look at them. I am there now (I am about as good as I will ever get I figure). I look at my EL code maybe every 2 or 3 months and normally just to look something up.

I think one has to get to this point, say good enough is good enough and start living a life outside trading. I personally am not out to get rich, just to enjoy what I do.

What I am saying is EL coding is not infinite. I actually had my strategy fully completed and manually tested using Qcharts long before I bought MC. Qcharts has no programming language. I never used any computer backtesting at all and feel no need to test it. MC for me is just a workload reduction tool.


I understand and agree with you, but...

This is a never ending business/school.
I don't know about you, but I will always be open to new ideas. I will continue to test new systems/ideas long after I completed my own trading system.

This is just me. I have a natural curiosity towards chart reading and price relationship.
Although I have my trading rules printed in my brain, leaving me free of programming formulas to trade it, as time goes by, I feel the need to code not only my system but also every idea I'm having.

Don't ask me way because I don't know the answer. I want to think this is a natural process of a person/trader evolution.

Even though you have a fairly profitable trading system, you know that you can do better but you're not in a situation where you can test your ideas in realtime as if you were a 20 year old youngster without any type of historical backtest.

For this, MC is the perfect weapon.

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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

Another thing is you can right click on the function in your scripted study and it will at the very top of that menu allow you to open that function's script.


Isn't this a new feature?

I've never read about that option before :oops: :?

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

I think it is like a bell curve. As you get your system up to higher and higher percentages of win/loss ratio and $win to $loss ratio that increases the odds that further tests will either not buy you much or actually be worse (probably the latter). Having said that I agree in that there are always new market situations that use new rules meaning some of the old rules can be overlooked in this special situation.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009


Isn't this a new feature?

I've never read about that option before Embarassed Confused




Actually it is in MC 2.1.999.999. I just stumbled upon it. There is probably nothing documenting it.

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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

Actually it is in MC 2.1.999.999. I just stumbled upon it.


:oops:

There is probably nothing documenting it.


This is one of MC problems. They use TS's EL manuals when they should write their own since there are functions and keywords specific to MC.
Also, there are situations where you see TS program options that are not equal or non existent in MC.

I think it is like a bell curve. As you get your system up to higher and higher percentages of win/loss ratio and $win to $loss ratio that increases the odds that further tests will either not buy you much or actually be worse (probably the latter). Having said that I agree in that there are always new market situations that use new rules meaning some of the old rules can be overlooked in this special situation.


I'be been always a discrecionary trader, and that fact forced me to follow no more than 4 securities at a time since my brain couldn't handle so much information at the same time.
This also allowed me to focus my attention on specific chart patterns that later on ended up in my trading system.

For the past 3 years I've been only following the ES and EURUSD. I'm happy with my performance last year, since I'm not a full time trader, but I know that I can do a lot better.

I don't believe I can do a lot better continue to use a discrecionary system since by the end of the day, I'm completely drained and my brain is starting to fail reading some of my own signals.

So it is a "must" for me to automate my signals so my brain can relax a bit more and also, automate things. This way I'm free to test other ideas that I'm having during the day.

Of course that to accomplish this, I need to learn by heart EL and that, well, let me tell you that this could be going a lot better :( :P

I'm able to read fairly well a written formula but then, when the time comes to write one, things start to go down hill pretty fast :P

Anyway, I need to take this with a smile on my face because the markets is still there tomorrow so time is on my side.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

Yah, I try to follow two symbols but I only do one. I need a second computer for that with two more screens, another MC and a second account with IB.

I can only automate parts of my system since it uses wave projections to decide on direction and waves get rather complex. I am good at programming but I don't know how to write code that can do what my eyes can do.

Speaking of complex waves, what did you think of what the ES did yesterday afternoon. Did you notice what it bounced off of. It was a 100% perfect bounce.

My best guess is they must have bought the rights to an old version of TS. I don't really care to think about it much. MC is very good. They do have that online EL manual. It is pretty good now.

I guess we are off topic now.

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Postby TJ » 25 Apr 2009

Yah, I try to follow two symbols but I only do one. I need a second computer for that with two more screens, another MC and a second account with IB...


you can connect 2 MC (on 2 diff computers) to one IB account.
I know theoretically it can be done, but I have not tried it because I do not have 2 MC.
Maybe TSSupport can confirm this.

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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

What about 1 PC with 4 or even 8 monitors?

Yes, I'm sure that there are a couple of things that are difficult to code, but who knows, maybe one day you'll discover a way.

Regarding ES, well that bouce at 1:15 PM was generated precisely at 50% retracement of the days range.

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Postby TJ » 25 Apr 2009

if TSSupport is going to tweak the PowerEditor, I have one more idea...

-- to add an option to Open the indicator on Import.

please see the attached illustration.
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Postby arnie » 25 Apr 2009

That's a good one TJ

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

These are ordered related to the original topic.

I think the editor import should have a sort on last modified too. Often (in the past more than now) I change a few unrelated studies and do one export for transfer to my notebook at the end of the trading day and forget what I have changed. Of course there are easy work arounds.

I don't think IB can run the same account on two computers (unless the latest release can do that). It can run one page for two currencies (I do that now). One symbol per currency.

I think you can get a special card for 3 monitors on one computer. Not sure about 4.

Regarding the ES, open a 15 minute bar chart with Bollinger bands at standard setting. It stares at you and a thousand other traders too. That was the exact bounce. 1 minute bar RSI was very close too as often as is the case. So maybe when multiple indicators line up such as the two I point out and the one you point out Arnie then you get these big sudden moves. If it is only one the moves are less extreme. During FOMC you just multiply that by 4 or 5 times due to increased people watching.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 26 Apr 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

Actually I screwed up the IB thing. It can run one symbol per tab with each symbol being traded in a different currency but both are in the same account.

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Postby TJ » 25 Apr 2009

These are ordered related to the original topic.

I think the editor import should have a sort on last modified too. Often (in the past more than now) I change a few unrelated studies and do one export for transfer to my notebook at the end of the trading day and forget what I have changed. Of course there are easy work arounds.


there is a Date Modified column in the PowerEditor, you can click on it and sort the indicators by modification date.

It would be nice to have the Date column in the "Insert Study" window.


I don't think IB can run the same account on two computers (unless the latest release can do that). It can run one page for two currencies (I do that now). One symbol per currency.


you can run 3 TWS in the same computer, but each account can only have one TWS opening.

what I am alluding to in the previous post is,
you can have the TWS in computer "A",
and MC in computer "B".
You can instruct MC to access the TWS in computer "A" through your home network.
This is how I set up my computers. I will find some time in the next few days to write a little instruction on how to do this.




I think you can get a special card for 3 monitors on one computer. Not sure about 4.


there are 4 port video cards.
you can check this thread for ideas.
http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums ... #post63392

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Apr 2009

Thanks TJ,

I was aware of the date modified sort on the editor but on the import (where you click the ones you want to bring in) it has

Checkbox (this is useful of course)
Icon (can't see any use for this)
Name (you can sort on this which is good)
Type (maybe sorting on this would be handy)
Archive file (kind of useless since I selected the archive file already)
Modified date (I do not see this one and it should be there) <<<<<<<<<

I sent a request for this to Marina a while back actually.


Having IB on another computer kind of goes against what I do. I like to have the IB prices right next to the closing prices of the 1 minute bar chart or the 10 second bar chart. I also have my database program right under IB and it controls a lot of stuff on MC by sending key strokes or GVs and on TWS by sending key strokes. In fact if all goes well I don't actually touch TWS all day except to highlight the top row at key times. So here is the problem. To trade two symbols I need the 4 monitors which is kind of obvious if I have a position in each at the same time. Now with my database program running on two computers (one for ES and the other for SXF - which is the TSE60 futures) I do not have to worry as much about conflicts in my database program due to my own programming bugs. I have the database program set up so it can handle two symbols but it would be easier with two computers and a keyboard switch. Anyway, it is an idea I have not acted on yet.

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Postby arnie » 03 May 2009

I had another idea.

Instead of having all studies (functions, indicators, signals) in folders in the navigator bar in PLE, what about create on the bottom of the navigator bar, where we have the studies and dictionary "panels", put in that zone those folders?

I don't know about you but it's very painful having to scroll all the way up, if you are in the signals folder, to reach the functions folder.

If you had those folders at the bottom, you would only need one click to select the folder you wanted.

See the image attached

regards,
Fernando
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