MultiCharts License

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
Gann_Man
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MultiCharts License

Postby Gann_Man » 09 Feb 2010

Looking to purchase a 'second' MultiCharts License.
Please contact me if someone is wanting to sell their legal registered license of MultiCharts.
Thank you.

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Anastassia
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Postby Anastassia » 10 Feb 2010

Dear Gann_Man,

It is against the licensing agreement to transfer the licensing information to or obtain licensing information from another user. When a user purchases a license, he/she does not buy the product, but obtains the right to use the product. This right is non-transferable. Here is an excerpt from the agreement, which has to be agreed to prior to installing the software:
"Software is the intellectual property of and is owned by Company. It is protected by intellectual property laws and international intellectual property treaties. Software is licensed to User, not sold.
...
Company grants User, in accordance with the terms and conditions stipulated in this Agreement, one (1) nonexclusive and nontransferable license to use Software on one (1) computer
...
User may not distribute Software, and/or disclose registration names(s) and/or registration code(s) to any other person, entity, organization or otherwise.

As an existing user of MultiCharts, we value your continued support. To discuss a good discount for a second license please contact Stan at 1-888-340-6572 ext 1002.

geektrader
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Postby geektrader » 10 Feb 2010

This is a pretty difficult topic, because courts see it different to your agreement (Autodesk as an example here):

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/AutoCAD-Aut ... -4806.html

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 10 Feb 2010

If I might suggest, telling your software vendor you do not intend to respect the terms you agreed to when you licensed their product would not be helpful. If TS Support does not intend to allow license transfers and told you this up front in their licensing agreement, it's safe to say it won't happen short of a court order invalidating their agreement, because their DRM would not permit this. If their agreement is invalidated, all bets are then off and they might well not be obligated nor choose to support you further, and it is easily conceivable that they could choose not to permit you to operate the software on the grounds that the terms to which you agreed for its use were invalidated by the courts - not exactly a winning scenario for anyone concerned.

You could take the stance that their licensing agreement is based on a false premise along with the licensing agreements to all other software, in which case you shouldn't have agreed to it. But you should uphold agreements you have made - that's the right thing to do in just about any case. To go ahead and agree to something with every intention of violating the agreement would be wrong in just about anyone's book.

If you are interested in a second license, simply license a new one legally.

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Postby SUPER » 10 Feb 2010

This is a pretty difficult topic, because courts see it different to your agreement (Autodesk as an example here):

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/AutoCAD-Aut ... -4806.html
My virus software "AVG" found threat to the link you have provided.

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 10 Feb 2010

The article is based on a report from Out-Law.com - here's the original article's link: http://www.out-law.com/page-9151 .

geektrader
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Postby geektrader » 10 Feb 2010

While you are right Bruce, you cannot take it a given thing that everyone knows what he is doing upfront. If you buy a new car, are you directly thinking about what happens when you want to sell it at the time you purchase it?

I find that true for software too. Most likely he never thought about the case that he (or in general anyone else) might be stuck with a running license that he has no use for anymore. In such a case I find it right to be able to sell such a license. And that is what the courts supports actually and is also my thinking of ethically-right-practice. In the end noone will be hurt, if TS allows him to transfer his license to another person, what do they loose? If he is not using the software anyway anymore and the new license owner is, then everyone is happy because TS is not charging the previous license owner money for something he is not using anymore and the new licenser owner is happy to make use of that and can afterwards legally extend his license in case it is a time-limited one.

That´s just fair use to me, sorry.

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 10 Feb 2010

Among other things, something that you're significantly failing to take into account is that the price of a permanent license includes maintenance and support. The cost to provide these services to a new user of a piece of software like MultiCharts is significantly front-loaded, and this is understood by the software vendor in their pricing structure. Unlike a car, the use of software involves significant training and support that also ultimately amounts to training you to understand the software's limitations and how to get things done. While different users use support services to different extents, there is an average amount that users use (which is mostly at the beginning), and this is something the vendor has taken into account in coming up with a price. If it were the case that they would have to help train users, resolve hardware/software problems, resolve usage issues (different users would try different things in all likelihood, and thus run into different problems causing new support issues that wouldn't have happened the first time), etc. indefinitely, starting over with new licensees whenever whoever owns the license feels like selling it, the software vendor would be taking on an unlimited liability, and not the liability that they understood when they quoted you a price which is based on their extensive experience in understanding the support cost of bringing a new user up to speed. In addition, it is always the case that some licenses at any given time are unused, and this is priced in as well. Thus, while it is possible they could decide in the future to offer transferrable licenses, it would be expected to be at a higher price than the price they have quoted for a non-transferrable license, and you can't reasonably expect them to provide a service they weren't agreeing to provide to new people they didn't agree to provide it to, without some kind of additional compensation for this additional service.

geektrader
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Postby geektrader » 10 Feb 2010

Don´t agree exactly because if the software has a good documentation support will be kept to a minimum. Which brings us to the the current biggest issue of Multicharts, the lack of a good documentation, that also is pretty much out of date. I agree that this will increase support needs because a lot of features are undocumented. But that is simply the problem of a lack of good documentation and hence support costs could be reduced heavily if that was fixed.

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geizer
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Postby geizer » 11 Feb 2010

Anastasia,

Can you please answer some of the questions, I think it hasn't been discussed before.

I'am thinking to hire a freelance programmer as an option to have some programming done, and would like to provide my laptop to a programmer (with Multicharts installed) to do the work.

Would this fact be considered a violation of the software agreement?

Suppose the programmer completed the project. If, after that programmer returned the laptop, we (TSS and myself) were to find (by the means of DRM) that my license is being used by someone else - you should have the DRM logs to help). I assume you will void my license so it's not used by the thief. But I will not be able to use Multicharts then either.

- Is my license considered a total loss as a result, and will I need to by the new one, or can you reissue a new one instead?


I don't want the above scenario to happen, but such possibility exists. Alternatively, I could just buy the quarterly license for $297 as a temporary solution - to exclude the chance of my license being stolen. Then, after the project completed I would decide not to renew it for the next quarter, and just let this to be your (TSS) problem instead? Can you comment on it please?

Thank you,
--
Pavel

---------------------------------
P.S.
A rather general, (not specific to TSS) comment to the above discussion:
Software companies should start offering a choice of licences:
Tranasferable and non-transferable. Then we would not see the court cases as mentioned earlier in this thread.
just my 2 cents.

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 11 Feb 2010

geektrader:

MultiCharts documentation is not at issue here, and you can't decide unilaterally to not abide the licensing agreement you agreed as a condition of licensure just because you think the other party should do something further that isn't part of the licensing agreement. The bottom line is that if you decide not to abide by the licensing agreement, you would no longer have the right to use the software, because those are the conditions under which you have been extended that right.

geizer:

Some software licenses are transferrable. It's simply a matter of how they are priced. If a software company offers transferrable licensure, it is generally somewhat more expensive than if it is not.

Regarding the usage of MultiCharts by a developer, by far the most straight forward solution is to choose a developer who already has a legal license for MultiCharts, and thus doesn't require your license at all.

In addition, if you use someone who's already an experienced MultiCharts developer, they would be more up to speed and thus you wouldn't be paying them for learning curve to figure out how things work, nor would your final project deliverables be that person's "first try" at MultiCharts programming.

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Anastassia
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Postby Anastassia » 11 Feb 2010

Dear geizer
Would this fact be considered a violation of the software agreement?
No, It would not be considered as a violation of the software agreement. You are providing your computer to someone not selling MultiCharts so you are ok.
I assume you will void my license so it's not used by the thief. But I will not be able to use Multicharts then either.
We can change your password if you suspect of someone using your account. That way you can continue using MultiCharts with the new password and the thief won't be able to login any longer.

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geizer
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Postby geizer » 11 Feb 2010

Anastasia,
Thank you for clarification.
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Pavel

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Anastassia
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Postby Anastassia » 12 Feb 2010

You are welcome Pavel!


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