order type: OCA

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
alexcaicn
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order type: OCA

Postby alexcaicn » 14 Apr 2010

currently i know only stop and limit order for the Power Language. HOWEVER I HEARD ABOUT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE OCA(ONE CANCEL ALL)ORDER TYPE, how to place this kind of order?

in addition, the stop limit, the trailling stop, etc

i am using MC + IB

actually i understand i could write a script to monitor in order for all order type, however it i could place this kind oder to IB server, it is more convinent and safe due to the connection delay!

thanks

Alex

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 14 Apr 2010

The issue here is that PowerLanguage is designed to be broker independent, but OCA/OCO orders are not implemented the same way by each broker.

alexcaicn
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Postby alexcaicn » 14 Apr 2010

I found the below description in the Multicharts help: Multicharts=>Help=>Multicharts Help =>Multicharts => Strategy Trading =>Auto trading => Working with Auto Trading

what does it mean?

"
One-Cancels-Other Orders

MultiCharts supports one-cancels-other (also known as one-cancels-all) orders. An example of an OCO order would be a bracket order. In a Bracket order, both the profit target and the stop loss orders are sent at the same time. If the profit target order is filled, the stop loss order is cancelled. If the stop loss order is filled, then the profit target order is cancelled. Interactive Brokers supports one-cancels-other orders natively. If Interactive Brokers is the broker, Interactive Brokers will be responsible for cancelling the other orders.
Patsystems, Rithmic Trader, Trading Technologies, and Zen-Fire do not support one-cancels-other orders natively. If these brokers/gateways are used, MultiCharts will send the cancel requests.
FXCM does not support one-cancels-other orders natively. If FXCM is the broker, MultiCharts will send the cancel requests. In addition, due to FXCM抯 restrictions, MultiCharts will not send limit or stop orders to FXCM. All limit or stop orders will be sent as market orders.

"

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 14 Apr 2010

I interpret this to mean that MultiCharts is designed to use OCO when it can - when the broker has native support for it, and that as other brokers add support, MultiCharts will consider adding it on their side also for that broker. Try this: put in place a long position on an IB simulation account with a stop and target both in place spaced far enough they won't be hit immediately but close enough they'll be hit in the next hour. Then, simply shut down MultiCharts and watch what happens. Does IB cancel the other side when the first side is hit? If so, OCO is working.

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Postby marekj » 17 Apr 2010

The problem is that internal Multicharts logic is using OCA order ALWAYS, even broker not supports it. Just open position (long for example), place target and stop. Modify target and you see that your stop is cancel and resubmitted with new target. Good luck to you if you do it when the current price is next to your stop. It the price will go below your stop price, when your stop was canceled by modification of the target, your stop is resubmitted and cancel by exchange (incorrect stop price, below current market).

Bruce, you should know about it ...if you are a trader, and using Multicharts for trading. Right. I forgot...you are just another consultant, that couldn't/can't make money in trading and try to make money in consulting.

I will explain why I don't like you. On the end of day, you can help a trader, how to write his/her system in EasyLanguage, how to backtest it. But you do not have ability to make system profitable in real trading over extended period of time (I could make it for yourself). On the end of day, trader will fail + spend unnecessary money on your consulting services.

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 18 Apr 2010

The technical problem of a stop being canceled and resubmitted at the same price when only a target is modified is NOT what is being discussed here, and is not what I was responding to. That issue you are talking about was already confirmed by TS Support, and they have said they will address it in the future - the question here is regarding how to use OCA specifically with IB.

Regarding your other comments, although I do development as a subset of my business, building this or that indicator or small trading system isn't really what I do most of the time and many days go by in some cases without any programming taking place on my personal part. Most of my work has to do with technical consultation - choosing the right technology for a specific project, how to make trading systems more robust, how to optimize and best handle overfitting issues, how to get systems to work together to minimize drawdowns, helping make strategies adaptive to changing market conditions, getting unstuck on complicated technical matters, technical analysis issues individual analysts may not yet be familiar with, dealing with broker integration for brokers that aren't yet supported by a trading platform, etc. Typically my clients bring in an outside consultant to help in specific areas because it's the most cost and time efficient way to get past hurdles and stay focused on the big picture - their time is too valuable to spend personally, laboriously figuring out something someone else already knows from experience and can just tell them or can do for them much more quickly. Currently, I'm focused on working with funds and coming in as a problem solver because that's where I have the most value to add in this market environment, with so many funds rolling out the kinds of projects I have experience with - making improvements for funds trading size makes more value for both of us than me trading as one person, because I can only keep up with so many markets and systems myself, and only have some much capital as an individual - nothing in comparison with funds which can deploy many strategies on many markets and balance risk across many approaches in ways few individuals can. I don't typically work with that many individual traders, and I'm not here to solicit, so I'm not sure where this type of comment is coming from frankly. Beyond that, and regarding your statement that you "don't like me" there's really nothing further that's appropriate to say. Good luck to you!

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Postby duration » 18 Apr 2010

Hi Marekj,

I don't understand why you wrote this on Bruce.

He knows so much about hardware and optimisation, I read each of his posts like a lesson. They are so valuable and well written I even save them on a text file!

It would be a real a shame if he left the forum because participants are groundlessly assaulting him...

The problem is that internal Multicharts logic is using OCA order ALWAYS, even broker not supports it. Just open position (long for example), place target and stop. Modify target and you see that your stop is cancel and resubmitted with new target. Good luck to you if you do it when the current price is next to your stop. It the price will go below your stop price, when your stop was canceled by modification of the target, your stop is resubmitted and cancel by exchange (incorrect stop price, below current market).

Bruce, you should know about it ...if you are a trader, and using Multicharts for trading. Right. I forgot...you are just another consultant, that couldn't/can't make money in trading and try to make money in consulting.

I will explain why I don't like you. On the end of day, you can help a trader, how to write his/her system in EasyLanguage, how to backtest it. But you do not have ability to make system profitable in real trading over extended period of time (I could make it for yourself). On the end of day, trader will fail + spend unnecessary money on your consulting services.

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Postby sptrader » 18 Apr 2010

This is no place for personal attacks, we have Great traders, programmers and consultants here. We all have different talents, abilities and combined, is a rich resource for all to benefit from. Bruce is a great contributor to this group, there is no reason to attack him. I look forward to his posts, he is very knowledgeable about MC and related topics.

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Postby SUPER » 18 Apr 2010

Bruce is a valuable contributor to this forum and there is a lot to learn from his detailed explanations.

Every one is entitled to his/her opinion but it should never get to personal attacks.

I think forum moderator/administrator should step in and ban members involved in personal attacks.

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Postby janus » 18 Apr 2010

Bruce is a valuable contributor to this forum and there is a lot to learn from his detailed explanations.

Every one is entitled to his/her opinion but it should never get to personal attacks.

I think forum moderator/administrator should step in and ban members involved in personal attacks.


I agree. No one is perfect - we all make mistakes, sometime really silly ones. I think all of us here try our best. Let's keep it friendly, including our disagreements.

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Postby RobotMan » 18 Apr 2010

Marekj said
I will explain why I don't like you. <snip>


This is not EliteTrader.com.
I don't care if Bruce couldn't create a system to trade his way out of a paper sack. He has been a prolific and valuable asset here and has not been disingenuous about his motives. You might have some disagreements with his zeal, tone or content (and I respect your ability to say so) however, You might want to address specific issues he has put forth in a post that you disagree with and dispute those with objectivity.

Respectfully,

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Postby marekj » 20 Apr 2010

To clarity, I don't have anything against Bruce personally (I don't know him). I have everything against Quantevo professionally (I don't want to see any posts of 3rd party software vendors, consultants, marketers, people/companies who want to make money off the traders). Hopefully, my point of view is understandable.

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Postby TJ » 20 Apr 2010

Andrew has stated in a number of posts
that he is OK with MultiCharts related vendors and consultants on this forum.

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 20 Apr 2010

Quantevo is an authorized MultiCharts reseller/partner and has a presence on the support forum by invitation. We've dedicated time resources to staying on top of a class of technical issues that affect our clients including issues to do with EasyLanguage compatibility, TS interoperation and live broker automation - and reading (and where appropriate, contributing to) the support forums are a part of that ongoing effort. We post here for the benefit of the community who are already MultiCharts users and supporters - so that we can help out where we can and give something back for the benefit we've received just as I'm sure you have benefited likewise from other users' contributions. The messages and email I've received in response to this have been quite positive and thank you very much to those who took the time to reach out - marekj, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I really think you're misunderstanding the basic reasons we've taken the time out of a busy schedule to contribute when we did not have to.

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Postby geizer » 20 Apr 2010

Quantevo is an authorized MultiCharts reseller/partner and has a presence on the support forum by invitation. We've dedicated time resources to staying on top of a class of technical issues that affect our clients including issues to do with EasyLanguage compatibility, TS interoperation and live broker automation - and reading (and where appropriate, contributing to) the support forums are a part of that ongoing effort.


Great post Bruce,
Finally something that should have been done a very looong time ago :)
It's been obvious to everyone on this forum that you are affiliated with MultiCharts. I read it in between lines in so many of your posts. I am sure many bitter posts on this forum (a somewhat small community) would have been avoided.

Regardless, I think both TS Support, and Quantevo have made a step in the right direction and this will strengthen your positions in the market. Congratulations once again.
--

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Bruce DeVault
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 21 Apr 2010

Words to that effect have been on the MultiCharts section of Quantevo's website at http://www.quantevo.com/development/multicharts.html from the first post we made so I never thought it was unclear - I'll take a look at updating the signature. Thanks for your comments.


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