MULTICHARTS PLS FIX DATA ACCURACY BEFORE ADDING NEW FEATURES

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flipflopper
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MULTICHARTS PLS FIX DATA ACCURACY BEFORE ADDING NEW FEATURES

Postby flipflopper » 14 Apr 2010

Found this post on thegrailsystem website:

http://www.thegrailsystem.com/forum/ind ... topic=39.0

Since I have posted the results of my benchmark test in September 2009, myself and several Grail users started using MultiCharts in parallel with TS.
I regret to report that intensive usage of the MultiCharts 5.5/6.0 platform has proven that it is unfortunately not as stable as one would have expected.
The instabilities/inconsistencies are of a subtle nature , but when the MC platform is pushed to the limits with software like the GGO/GWFO/CASB, then these problems rear it's head.
Below is some of the problems experienced by Grail users:

- Occasional corrupt records being exported when using the FileAppend & FastFileAppend function (refer
http://www.thegrailsystem.com/forum/ind ... 728#msg728

- As soon as more than 4 cores are being used, then random duplicate records are being exported when using the FileAppend & FastFileAppend function in combination with the BarStatus function.
Refer http://www.thegrailsystem.com/forum/index.php?topic=167 and
http://www.thegrailsystem.com/forum/ind ... opic=253.0

- MC does not support the usage of "Buy/Sell next bar at Open of next bar -/+ X"
in combination with "Buy/Sell next bar at market".
Refer http://www.thegrailsystem.com/forum/ind ... opic=244.0

- Occasional problems with dynamic arrays
Refer http://www.thegrailsystem.com/forum/ind ... opic=223.0

Grail users have independently confirmed that the above problems do not occur if the exact same strategy is run under the same conditions on TS, thus proving that these problems are MultiCharts platform specific.
Most of the problems happen on a random basis which makes it even more problematic.
One simply doesn’t know when you may trust the MC results and when not.

The above discovery is really a great pity because the multi-threading capability of MultiCharts is a great feature.
But, as it stands at this moment, when choosing between MultiCharts and TS, the choice is ultimately between speed and reliability, where MC is the faster platform and TS is the more stable & reliable platform.
When one must make choice between speed and accuracy/reliability, then in my own opinion, accuracy/reliability is most important.
Unfortunately it does not help if a process executes much faster but one cannot rely on the actual figures being produced.

Restricting MultiCharts to using only one core seems to solve most of the above problems, but unfortunately, then most of the performance benefit is also lost.
As explained in my post above, the benchmark showed that on a single core computer, MC is on average only about 7% faster than TS.

Also note that MC5.5/6.0 does not support ELD's created by the latest TS8.8.
Until such stage that MC can handle TS8.8 ELD's, the only way that strategies can be transferred between TS and MC is via text files.

Wouter

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Postby flipflopper » 14 Apr 2010

If you can't trust the results of Multicharts simulations and backtesting and optimization then it is a worthless product. Why add new features to a product that doesn't work?

TS Support please fix your data issues before adding any new features. New features on a product that doesn't work is a waste of time.

Multicharts Issues:
1. Duplicate data on daily bars when you change session info. Need to clear cash to eliminate duplicates. Very worrisome.
2. Sometimes when creating a chart with multiple instruments and they are backfilling the same chart simultaneously there are gaps in some of the instruments.
3. Imported ASCII data disappeared.
4. Sometimes when running strategies on a chart with multiple instruments (even when there are no data gaps) the strategies only appear to be working on portions of the chart.

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Re: MULTICHARTS PLS FIX DATA ACCURACY BEFORE ADDING NEW FEAT

Postby geizer » 14 Apr 2010

Found this post on thegrailsystem website:

I've seen the article as well. no comments.

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    Re: MULTICHARTS PLS FIX DATA ACCURACY BEFORE ADDING NEW FEAT

    Postby janus » 15 Apr 2010

    I'm not sure how accurate this report is. Now that these alleged critical issues are being exposed to the public, they need to be answered by TSS and if true fixed ASAP before any new feature is even discussed let alone implemented.

    Although not related to the above, I have encountered numerous annoying aspects about MC recently. I've posted a few before (eg, the scrolling issue and PLEditor bugs) but it appears TSS is not interested in fixing them. It's a pity since by ignoring them, MC runs the risk of losing appeal to many traders. I'm sorry to be blunt but sometimes one needs to be outspoken to highlight ones deep concerns.

    I'm currently working with another person who used to be in the futures broker business for a long time. He's often made the comment to me how annoying MC is as well. He has used many other platforms during his life as a broker, and he's found MC to be one of the best in terms of features but one of the worst in how some of the operations are handled (eg, scrolling).

    Often, it's the simple things that make or break a product. I for one like to see MC succeed. However, this is only achievable in this line of business if the product becomes both more reliable and less annoying to use. Just adding new features is like painting over a badly prepared surface. So, please focus on fixing all these issues prior to bringing out any new features. It's time to focus purely on this aspect of the product before it's too late.

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    Postby TradingPro » 15 Apr 2010

    OK, the purpose of this post is to release some of the steam that is being generated around MC issues recently.
    Wouter (CEO, Grail) and I have been working closely with Dennis (TSSupport) to resolve some of the issues that we have identified and pointed out in the original Grail post above and progress is being made.
    What I would like to mention here to customers is that most of the issues above specifically pertain to Grail users as our heavy usage of EL certainly stress tests any platform to the max.

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    Postby geizer » 15 Apr 2010

    I share most of the pain discussed here. At the same time the good part is that developers have addressed many serious flaws up to date, and continue to nail them down, one fix at a time, with every single release, whether it's a beta or major release. I myself have been a harsh critic and a supporter of MultiCharts at the same time.

    Maybe it's time to start supporting a little more.
    Despite some flaws in the product, MultiCharts deserves a better market share. We all know that.

    Everyone can help become MultiCharts better, besides providing feed-back and beta-testing, by voting for the product on forums like Elitetrader, and T2W. This does take time and some effort, but it worth it. If we like the product we should give it thumbs up. There is no reason not to. I am taking few minutes every day to make posts on eliterader.com forum. Elitetrader requires min of 30 posts before anyone can leave a comment for MultiCharts. I encourage everyone who has not done it yet, go ahead and vote. Just do it. It's as simple as that.

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    Postby flipflopper » 15 Apr 2010

    I have always been a huge supporter of Multicharts. I voted for them on the Trade2Win poll and twice on Elite trader. I always recommend the product to anyone I talk to.

    This is why it's upsetting when I started coming across some data issues then reading about more data issues then also knowing that they are trying to add so many new features.

    I want to make sure Multicharts doesn't lose its way. If the product is not accurate or has some issues dealing with data and running simulations these things have to be dealt with first. Otherwise you are just adding features to something that doesn't work at its core.

    I love this product... but when I find out about accuracy issues it's like finding out your wife is cheating on you!!! It is upsetting.

    Hopefully Multicharts can come up with a way to deal with bugs and track their progress so we all know where we stand.

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    Postby janus » 15 Apr 2010

    Simply voting on forums to attract users will only backfire as they discover the same "smaller" issues and annoyances, and spread the word. So, to make MC more popular simply fix the "smaller" issues and annoyances in the first place :roll:

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    Postby TradingPro » 16 Apr 2010

    Note that many of the issues that we have reported in the Grail forum and the post above pertain specifically to MultiCore issues. I run many of my operations on 16 cores, however some of the issues are side-stepped by reducing cores to 4 and others need to have MultiCore off, ie reduced to 1.
    I have attached files for your convienience to select the number of cores that you might need to work around issues.

    Sure this is not ideal, I am just an end user here trying to help out others around some of the issues until such time as they are fixed.

    As a user myself that has invested a great deal on 16+ core servers specifically to run with MC I am affected by this more than most and therefore pushing for these fixes as much as anyone.

    Here is the file to turn all cores back on: MC on ALL Cores.reg
    Also a file to limit your machine to just 4 cores: MC on 4 Cores.reg [useful for side stepping the double-trade issue and thus permits you to use MC with GGO/GWFO without needing to go into BIOS settings]

    Be sure to restart MC to apply the change.
    Attachments
    MC Core Selection.zip
    Includes MC on ALL Cores.reg, MC on 4 Cores.reg and MC on 1 Core1.reg
    (723 Bytes) Downloaded 57 times

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    Postby MC_Prog » 17 Apr 2010

    I agree that the issues/problems discussed here are critical to fix, as both the multi-core speed advantage and the ability to work perfectly in concert with high-end tools such as TheGrail are key strategic capabilities for MC.

    Best wishes for a speedy diagnosis and recovery!

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    Postby sptrader » 17 Apr 2010

    Andrew mentioned that Beta 3 was coming VERY soon (actually overdue I think). I expect some of these issues will be resolved then.
    Data handling and charting accuracy are critically important because that's what we base our trading decisions on.

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    Postby Nick » 28 Apr 2010

    +1

    Stability and core functionality over new features every single time! I have been banging on about this since v2 (or maybe even 1). Accurate and timely collection, storage and recall of data + precise rasterisation are core functionality on which everything else depends.

    I'd like to see some architectural changes to see precise (correctly sequenced and millisecond time stamped) storage and recall of multiple data streams. This is absolutely necessary for the ever more popular 'MD' type indicators that seem to be gaining popularity daily! Anyway I just said all this in another post just wanted to add my support:D

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    Postby TradingPro » 09 May 2010

    I agree that the issues/problems discussed here are critical to fix, as both the multi-core speed advantage and the ability to work perfectly in concert with high-end tools such as TheGrail are key strategic capabilities for MC.

    Best wishes for a speedy diagnosis and recovery!


    I am glad to report that we have achieved just this.
    Please see my post here www.forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.php?p=33258


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