(not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors.

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(not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors.

Postby bowlesj3 » 22 May 2010

Hi,

I have pretty much decided to go to a triple 28" minitor setup (or at least a double 28" and 20").

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding good cards (or setups generally) for this.

Thanks,
John.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 01 Aug 2012, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Tresor » 22 May 2010

Consider going for:
1. Samsung md230x3. Three monitors with slim bezels of 1920x1080 (23'') and with nice stand - will be available within a few days for under $2k http://www.provantage.com/samsung-md230x3~4SAMD0L8.htm , or
2. Samsung md230x3. Three monitors with slim bezels of 2560x1600 (30'') and with nice stand - will be available within a few months

The graphics card (5 displayports) is http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/19/powe ... f-a-wheel/ but 3 diplayport cards should be available within a few days.


3. Six monitor (md230x6) set-up's description http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/11/sams ... -to-match/

The graphics card is http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/31/ati- ... -novel-bu/ - in region of $450.
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Postby sptrader » 22 May 2010

If you're on a budget, you can go with 2 Invidia Ge Force 9500gt cards, that's what I did. I run 4 19" monitors, 3 for MC and one always on IB. (TWS)
(I need to upgrade to 23" monitors as well)
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Postby TJ » 22 May 2010

#1: don't waste your money on expensive graphics cards.

the so called "powerful" cards are for games,
they are capable of 3D graphics:
Modeling, layout and animation,
ray tracing,
ambient occlusion,
continuous tone/texture rendering, etc.

All of these features are NOT used by a charting software
because charts are 2D graphics only.

look up these buzzwords:
directX
OpenGL

you will find them on games packages,
but not on charting softwares.

Most of the charting graphics are CPU bound.
ie most the "pictures" are done by the CPU
and are not off-loaded to the graphics card for processing.

therefore, any USD$50 card will do the job.


having said the above,
you might still consider an expensive graphics card if
you use your machine for other graphics intensive operations.
e.g. watch video, read PDF, fly through Google Earth, etc.,

HTH

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Postby bowlesj3 » 22 May 2010

Thanks guys,

Nice setups.

I already have the monitor selected. It is I-INC and is very good so far for a 28" at low cost (touch wood). I guess it is the 3 port card I am looking for which works well. I have Nvidia Geforce 7300 SE/7200 GS now. System is AMD Atholon(tm) 64 X 2 Dual Core Processor 3600+ 1.90 Ghz 1.00 GB RAM Physical Address Extension.

So I guess from what I am reading and what I have now it makes sense to see if Nvidia fits the bill.


You say "read PDF" is graphics intensive TJ. Are we talking about the adobe reader files? :? Not that I use them but it seems surprising to me.

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Postby TJ » 22 May 2010

yes... pdf uses both graphics and text.


The price performance is low with 3 port or 4 port cards.

Get 2x 2 port cards if you have extra slot.

If you plan on adding an extra graphics card,
make sure you get the same brand and model.
I know they say it is not necessary,
but I have seen too many people pulling hair out of their heads, it's not funny.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 22 May 2010

Okay, I have left myself a reminder to review this thread just before I go to the computer shop where I do all my upgrades. I will run it buy the guy.

Thanks,
John.

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Postby sptrader » 22 May 2010

Dealsdigger.com has a great deal right now on Samsung 23.5" at $165 with free shipping. (through Dell)

Dell Small Business has Samsung 2494LW 23.6" LCD Monitor for $230 - $65 coupon MLZBF1Q0CPVSBT = $165 with free shipping

Specs:
Resolution: 1920x1080
Contrast Ratio: 50,000:1 Dynamic
Response Time: 5ms
Viewing Angles: 170° H / 160° V
Inputs:
1x DVI
1x VGA

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Postby TJ » 22 May 2010

because of HDTV, a lot of the monitors come with 1080 vertical resolution.

This is fine with small monitors (<20"),
but it is too coarse for charting on a large monitor.
especially for a precision program like MultiCharts.

I would rather pay more for a higher resolution monitor.
after all, it is for your eyes, you are looking at it all day,
and it doesn't cost that much more if you amortize it over a few years.

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Postby geizer » 22 May 2010

TJ is right about resolution.
Also I would like to add that with larger displays, totally different factors come into effect and need to be accounted for:
160°...170° Horizontal viewing angles of all low budget monitors becomes a problem. Any display larger than 24" will be pain to stare at for extended hours due to color distortions that become noticeable at the edges. You will have to go with non-TN matrix display which deliver 178° horizontal viewing angles. These monitors are twice as expensive for the same resolution (everything else being equal). A quick way to tell is these monitors besides 178° viewing angles will always have slower response time (Never less than 6 ms). Slower response is not good for movies/games but preferred for professional usage if you spend a lot of hours in front of the screen (slower response reduces flicker - less eye strain).
Here is some idea about prices: http://tinyurl.com/53cujw.
Some currently available in Canada:
http://tinyurl.com/mjxzhh
http://tinyurl.com/38zmcs
http://tinyurl.com/3678844

Here is my choice: I recently replaced an older Benq 24" 1920x1200 with Samsung 2343BWX 23.5" (2048x1152 pixels). The result - more pixels in smaller screen size. Space taken on my desk is even smaller. It's energy efficient with good picture quality.

- 23.5" (Thin bezel)
- 2048 x 1152 pixels (!)
- Non-glossy
- DVI (cable incl.)
- VGA (cable incl.)
- VESA mount compatible
- CAD $189 + taxes.

http://tinyurl.com/398mbvk - shipping is free in Canada.

Total screen real estate calculation:

Total screen size:
3 monitors x (2048 x 1152) = 6144 x 1152 pixels = 7,077,888 pixels
Required desk space: 64.5" (W) x 16.1" (H)

Placing 3 monitors vertically side by side (rotating them 90°) will save you the desk space but requires buying a multi-monitor stand, which will double the total cost of setup.

Total cost ~ CAD $570+ Tax. Free Shipping in Canada if you buy at http://memoryexpress.com
Last edited by geizer on 22 May 2010, edited 9 times in total.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 22 May 2010

The I-INC I am using is 1920x1200 in a 28". Running at $330 Canadian at a location near buy. It seems like the best deal in my area for monitors I can just pick up (BEST BUY can't match it let alone have one that big). I have one now and it seems pretty good (however it is only about 1 year old).

I am thinking of putting 5 second bars on one monitor with TWS and my control software , 1 minute bars on a second monitor (doing two sets of wave projections with the large screen size providing the room for that) and the other 28" would have all the other charts with a fair bit of room to see the RSI better.

The reason I have all of a sudden become interested in this is I have just discovered that my triggering system works better with 5 second bars in fast markets than the same system using 10 second bars. The 10 second bars works better for the slower markets. So I need a bit more room to mark the waves all round (avoiding having to scroll the charts which is way too slow for discretionary day trading).

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Postby janus » 22 May 2010

That's interesting about resolutions and size. I was considering buying a couple or more of 40" TVs that have DVI input as they are dirt cheap compared to PC Monitors of the same size. Now, I'm going to stick to PC monitors.

Bit of history: back in my younger days at work around 25 years ago I used 24" Barco monitors that had 4096 x 4096 resolution. Of course they were very expensive. The reason for the very high resolution is to display full color satellite images. I stared at the screen for hours and never suffered from eye strain. I suppose the resolution had something to do with it.

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Postby geizer » 22 May 2010

John,
don't know if you're interested - i just finished editing my previous post adding more info for your information. In case you want to look at http://www.memoryexpress.com - this is a Calgary based very reputable company that been around since '98. They announced free shipping anywhere in Canada just few months ago.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 May 2010

Thanks, geizer

After experiencing a 28" monitor for trading I won't go below 27.5 at the 1920 X 1200 resolution.
I am not an expert on monitors so I like to see the charts on the monitor before I can decide if I like it or not. I can't relate the numbers to good or bad experience from the past. My experience with this 28" is 100% good so far but that is me. Others may be more fussy.

My exact monitor has been discontinued and replaced by this 27.5" monitor
http://www.i-inc-usa.com/product/if281.htm
but it is the same company I-INC. My main monitor is an exact 28" monitor.


Here is info on the exact monitor I have including a great and cool youtube review with a young guy who tells it like it is. (interesting stuff you can find when you do google searches).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pp6R1anGX0
The person doing the review is correct. It is a great monitor for the price and I can't see any difference conpared to the viewsonic 20" monitor I have. No heat issues with me. Some say it is too thick but who cares when you are 100% focused on trading (these trivialities don't exist when one is in that head space). I never seem to have eye strain problems after all these years of huge amounts of monitor viewing. He mentions vertical streaks but I can't see any. I have no idea what he is talking about. I see absolutely no discoloring on the sides. It is perfect as far as I can tell. It had issues when it first came out but they fixed that so I waited. Maybe my version is newer. I believe this monitor is cheap for one reason only (the company is new and unknown).

Here are the specs on the older version (my monitor).
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/ ... CatId=3774

I was in the www.tigerdirect.ca store last week. They quoted me $330 for the 28" I-INC so I assume it is the older version. I am not sure of the new version price. I got my version on sale for $345 by waiting about a year for prices to drop (and waiting for the issue to be corrected). I have decided to grab the older version at $330 if I can before it vanishes at that price (new tax coming here as well to increase price in June/July 2010).

Here are the current tiger direct larger monitors.
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/ ... 8402_47500
I am a little confused about the 28". They have another company 27.5 28inch class. Monday I will call them to get clarification. The top URL says you can get that monitor at Tiger Direct so they seem to have two 28" class monitors that are 27.5 inch but totally different companies.

I am lucky in that I pass by this mail order outlet often and do not need to have things shipped to me from them. They are a mail order store with fairly good pricing. I am not a mail order fan (it is all about impatience with me). I bought a replacement power adapter for my notebook via mail order and when I got it the plug kept falling out so instead of sending it back I cut the chord and attached the old plug with mar connectors (too lazy to solder it proper). Now I have a huge length of cable (the full length of both chords combined) and worked out a system to ensure I never break the chord again by carefully placing the chords back in the carry case and never taking the actual adapter out. I hate sending things back. At least if the store is close buy I can drive there and get the problem resolved within a few hours. It is open 7 days a week.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 24 May 2010, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby arnie » 23 May 2010

Hi John

For multiple monitors you eider go to Matrox or Nvidia.

I've always used Matrox on my computers (dual head cards), but recently I decided to buy 2 more monitors and was forced to buy a new card.

Cards for 4 monitors are expensive as hell, so I went to Ebay and found a Nvidia Quadro NVS 440 for less than half the price of a new one.

Work like a charm.

I have 4 Acer 21.5" monitors and still have my two 17" monitors waiting for my new desktop where I will connect this Nvidia card plus another one that I have from other PC that I had, resulting in a 6 monitors setup.

Thank god for the new motherboards with 2 or even 3 PCIe slots, where we can easily connect multiple cards without stressing to much the processor

regards,
Fernando

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Postby Tresor » 23 May 2010

Thank god for the new motherboards with 2 or even 3 PCIe slots, where we can easily connect multiple cards without stressing to much the processor
A bit of topic, but let us also thank for new graphics cards, as well. 12 high res monitors on a single card http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/powe ... rdays-new/

Pretty amazing stuff :shock:

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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 May 2010

Thanks guys for the extra info. I will summarize everything for the guy at the computer shop and price things out.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

WOW!

Last week I priced adding a card for a 3rd monitor for my dual processor machine. It ended up costing me $124 Canadian for installation with tax. I used an existing 20 inch monitor. Not bad. It inspired me to price increase my 1 gig of memory which has been giving me problems. My mother board it turns out can only handle 2 gig. The installation to double my memory from 1 gig to 2 gig with tax was $40. This is my first morning with it. The difference is just amazing. Everything is just flying now.

So the moral of the story is (Don't assume things will be expensive) and therefore price around. My repair person which I have been using for about 15 years, seems to have a lot of pricing tricks up his sleeve. Maybe he had the memory in stock.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 01 Aug 2012

WOW!

Last week I priced adding a card for a 3rd monitor for my dual processor machine. It ended up costing me $124 Canadian for installation with tax. I used an existing 20 inch monitor. Not bad. It inspired me to price increase my 1 gig of memory which has been giving me problems. My mother board it turns out can only handle 2 gig. The installation to double my memory from 1 gig to 2 gig with tax was $40. This is my first morning with it. The difference is just amazing. Everything is just flying now.

So the moral of the story is (Don't assume things will be expensive) and therefore price around. My repair person which I have been using for about 15 years, seems to have a lot of pricing tricks up his sleeve. Maybe he had the memory in stock.
2GB of memory? And you're able to run MC on that?
Damn! I was forced to go to 8GB since 4 was starting to came out short for the all the stuff I have running.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby TJ » 01 Aug 2012

...
2GB of memory? And you're able to run MC on that?
Damn! I was forced to go to 8GB since 4 was starting to came out short for the all the stuff I have running.
I think there is something wrong with this forum software, a post from 2005 all of a sudden popped up today.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

2GB of memory? And you're able to run MC on that?
Damn! I was forced to go to 8GB since 4 was starting to came out short for the all the stuff I have running.
LOL, like I said I have to figure out if I can spin my head right around before I can buy 8 monitors! I tried it, no cigar on that one :-) I only trade one symbol (one workspace). It really reduces MC usage and I can't see ever needing more than 3 monitors and I realized the 3 I have now is just fine. When I started almost 13 years ago (developing a brand new strategy discarding my old market strategies used over the prior 11 years roughly) I was watching 8 stocks and 2 futures on a double monitor. Then I reduced it to 4 stocks. Then went to IB and reduced it to 2 futures. Then 1 futures and only price and RSI (getting rid of MacD). I figure by focusing on perfecting my version of TA and having a high win/loss ratio making more money will be just a matter of increasing contracts. My brain can't handle 10 symbols all at once.
I think there is something wrong with this forum software, a post from 2005 all of a sudden popped up today.
I know, 2010 converted to 2005 to add humor value :-)

I just kept putting it off because I thought I may as well combine the memory increase and monitor increase with a new computer purchase but buying a new computer (going to Win7) gets a bit harder for me since one of my software may not run (maybe lots of work to change it). At the prices I got for the upgrade why not give it a shot and see what happens with a dual Core processor XP setup. Runs great. So for those out there with this system and simple needs it is worth considering trying MC without doing the upgrade first.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

I just checked the minimum requirements.

https://www.multicharts.com/multicharts/tech-specs/

it says dual core CPU: 3 GHz and RAM: 1 GB of RAM. I am running dual core 1.9 GHz and 2 GB of RAM. So I guess doubling the ram is more important allowing a slower speed.

I just checked the link in the FAQs I created for comparing the "Commit Charge" memory against the "Physical Memory".
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7466#p41313
I am now running at about 80% Commit Charge so that explains it. Before I was going over fairly often. I am running at 100% CPU but that is not MC. it is my triple database timers doing that. if I get rid of the database timers the CPU is only running at about 46%. So I need a faster machine but not because of MC. However, all and all it is really flying compared to before.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 01 Aug 2012

LOL, like I said I have to figure out if I can spin my head right around before I can buy 8 monitors! I tried it, no cigar on that one :-)
I don't know why people immediately assume that 8 monitors = multiple symbols :P

Quite the contrary.
First of all I have 8 screens because I put to work my oldies 15" and my 17". When I assembled the computer I bought two 21.5" which I than add the two 17". The 17" didn't allow much screen space and I bought another two 21.5". So I had four 21.5" screens on the desk. Then I thought what would I do with the other four that I add in the closet, the 15" and the 17"? I said the hell with it, I bought two more graphic cards and connected all LOL

I only trade 1 market/symbol. During mornings (my time) if I have time I might do something in the 6E but my main market is the ES.
So I have 4 ES charts from which I trade. Each has it's own indicator since I can't deal with multiple indicators in one chart. Too many text on top of each other. So this occupies 2 monitors. I then have 16 charts span over 4 monitors. 5 more ES charts, longer time frames only for reference points (4 are plotting volume profile studies from a second chart platform) and then I have the YM and NQ to see how they are behaving. I also have the XLF and XLK since they are the major sectors and the indices need to act accordingly to the sectors. I have also the S&P500 TICK that helps read the extremes of a swing and the Advances and Decliners, also to support the indices move.
I also have the 6E, CL, US and GC just to know what is happening there, no real interest. Hey, I have space...
My 15", one have the broker platform so I can always see if the DOM isn't failing and the other have what comes to mind. Usually charts where I'm testing something and want to see how things running in real time.

So 8 monitors which 4 are constantly watched during market hours and the other 4 just for keep an eye on. Many times I have them switched off since 8 TFT screens generate a lot of heat. During summer most days I need to have the AC on because I get almost 29 degrees Celsius inside the office.

But truth be told, it's too much stuff in front of you, too much blinking. You get easily trapped in it. Like I said, most of the times I only have 4 on, OK, fine, I have 5, since the broker platform is always visible to have certain that there's no order lost inside MC. It would not be the first time...

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

Thanks Arnie! I am really glad to know I am not the only one who can't turn my head right around :-)

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby TJ » 01 Aug 2012

.... Many times I have them switched off since 8 TFT screens generate a lot of heat. During summer most days I need to have the AC on because I get almost 29 degrees Celsius inside the office.
...
The new LED backlit screens use a lot less electricity, and generate hardly any noticeable heat.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

The new LED backlit screens use a lot less electricity, and generate hardly any noticeable heat.
I bet there will be a day when the screens are solar, they power themselves and you can sell the power to the grid. Everythiing will be so light you trade outside on a good day :-)
OK, fine, I have 5, since the broker platform is always visible to have certain that there's no order lost inside MC.
Getting more serious, I probably could use 6 monitors if they were positioned properly with 3 across the top and 3 across the bottom. I would have the 5min,10min,15min,30min,60min and daily spread such that I could better read their RSI values because on occasion those values can give you a clue as to where a big move might occur. What I do now is I drop an arrow on the RSI of those charts and it gives me a number and I set an alert to remind me that the RSI is getting there and I could keep the possibility of a big move in mind.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 01 Aug 2012

.... Many times I have them switched off since 8 TFT screens generate a lot of heat. During summer most days I need to have the AC on because I get almost 29 degrees Celsius inside the office.
...
The new LED backlit screens use a lot less electricity, and generate hardly any noticeable heat.
Yes, I've been thinking about that but spend more money in monitors... when I already have 8? What do I do with them then? Connect all and ending up with 16?

LOLOLOL


I'm waiting for them to start to burn out. My 15" have probably more than 12 years. My 17" probably 8 years and the 21.5" 4 years. The 15" are starting to show some discoloration which might indicate that the back-light is "running out", I think, I hope ;)

I have a serious problem with these new wide screens though, it's a really crappy format when dealing with computers. I'm thinking setting my 21.5" vertical although that would force me to alter their supports that are on the wall. I'm really not in the mood for manual labor at the moment. Also, I have no idea how my nVidia cards deal with rotating the screens and of course if the monitors themselves are prepare for that. Never investigated.
Naturally that wide screens have some advantages. You can have 1 wide screen (horizontal mode) to look at charts when studying long periods and have all others in vertical mode.

But you know, the heat generated by the TFT screens really warm up the office during winters. I rarely use the AC during winters :P

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 01 Aug 2012

Getting more serious, I probably could use 6 monitors if they were positioned properly with 3 across the top and 3 across the bottom. I would have the 5min,10min,15min,30min,60min and daily spread such that I could better read their RSI values because on occasion those values can give you a clue as to where a big move might occur. What I do now is I drop an arrow on the RSI of those charts and it gives me a number and I set an alert to remind me that the RSI is getting there and I could keep the possibility of a big move in mind.
You know, I have 2 monitors on top and 2 in the bottom (I believe I left a photo here a couple of months ago somewhere...) and let me tell you those on the top are really a pain to watch if you spend to much time looking at them. Your neck really starts to hurt. 6 screens, if all wide, put them side by side in vertical mode.

According to doctors the correct position to look at a screen is our eyes in a straight line to the top of the screen. When you look at the center of the screen your eyes need to look downwards, never upwards.
I actually have my 4 main charts in two 21.5" and in the two 17" since the other two 21.5" are above them. I couldn't bear to look up for so many hours.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

those on the top are really a pain to watch if you spend to much time looking at them.
I was kind of thinking of that and thinking that the lower ones would have to be down just above the keyboard and the upper ones only up a bit (time to bring out the carpentry skills for the special desk - maybe a business opportunity in the waiting).

It occured to me that I actually could only use 5 of them in total .
#1 for 10 second bars (and the TWS execution software and my programs with the timers)
#2 for 1 minute bars only.
#3 for the (5min & 10Min) stacked side by side so the RSI is stretched
#4 for the (15min & 30min) stacked side by side so the RSI is stretched
#5 for the (60min & daily) stacked side by side so the RSI is stretched .
I don't really use the daily bars. I just find it amusing - LOL.

Currently I use the larger charts for marking the larger waves, projection data which is fed into the 1 minute bar planning area and band bounces (also fed into the 1 minute bar area). So the current setup with 3 monitors is actually adequate except I have to sometimes pull the RSI subchart up a bit which slows me down somewhat when I do that RSI scan.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 01 Aug 2012

those on the top are really a pain to watch if you spend to much time looking at them.
I was kind of thinking of that and thinking that the lower ones would have to be down just above the keyboard and the upper ones only up a bit. It occured to me that I actually could only use 5 of them in total (time to bring out the carpentry skills for the special desk).
#1 for 10 second bars (and the TWS execution software and my programs with the timers)
#2 for 1 minute bars only.
#3 for the (5min & 10Min) stacked side by side so the RSI is stretched
#4 for the (15min & 30min) stacked side by side so the RSI is stretched
#5 for the (60min & daily) stacked side by side so the RSI is stretched .
I don't really use the daily bars. I just find it amusing - LOL.
I knew it! All that talk about only 3 monitors was just to cover your true intentions :D

If you tilt upwards the ones at the bottom you're able to lower a bit more the ones at the top, tilting them downwards.

Damn, I always had problems dealing with prepositions. My English teachers almost killed me because I never knew which one to use :(

... on the top
... at the top

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

For me, I think it is just a matter of whether it is worth the extra 2 monitors. Some days I get lazy and never look at the RSI in the larger charts. Other days I do. I have a work around anyway. Is it worth the speed up or not (that is all it would do is save me maybe 2 minutes tops on the days I decide to not be lazy - LOL). When it comes right down to it I don't have the patience to hold for those big runs anyway. I generally use those RSI levels (if they exist) to avoid a loss if I figure there is going to be a bounce against my late trend trade. Some days I see no bounces in those RSI at all. But for others I am sure it is worth it having more monitors if they use more indicators in their systems often enough during the day. Sometimes it might be the speed they need to get the data even though they do not need it that often.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 01 Aug 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby TJ » 01 Aug 2012

You don't have to look at every chart all the time;
program in a sound alert: "Hey buddy, wake up, take a look at my RSI!"
pop a window,
print an extra large text on the screen,
get the chart to send you an email
or a text message on your phone,
or change the background color of your chart to emergency red...

oh there are so much you can do. :-)

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 01 Aug 2012

I am not sure who you are referring to TJ but for me I use the 3rd monitor maybe several hundred times a day (I use the price portion which is large enough for sure). The RSI portion maybe 5 or so minutes at most. Other factors come in to people's decision too (like how much space to they have for those monitors. In my case not much space is available. The reason I went to 3 monitors from two was because my minute bars were spread over 2 monitors. I had shortcuts to squeeze the charts. However this was not efficient so I finally bit the bullet and did what I should have done long ago (get a 3rd monitor). Each to his own.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby TJ » 01 Aug 2012

I used to have 3 monitors.
Down to 2 now,
but will go back to 3 soon.
A lot of the new graphics card supports 3 monitors, so it will be easy.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 02 Aug 2012

Yes, the alerts are really helpful.

I have a workspace destined just for the alerts.
Everytime price goes above/below, overnight high/low, RTH high/low, initial balance high/low it triggers an alarm for each of the contracts, ES, YM, NQ, CL, 6E, GC and US. That's why I requested a button in MC to switch off all alerts, specially the ones coded because when they decide to make new highs/lows at the same time it's really ANNOYING hearing - S&P just made new high for the day or S&P just broke overnight high. Now multiply this 6 more times, one for each contract... constantly. And having to go through 7 charts and set to false the alerts input it's not feasible when markets are open. A simple button would resolve that. By the way, associating a key shortcut to that would be even better.

Code: Select all

UseAlerts (true),
SelectAlertSymbol ("ES"),

if SelectAlertSymbol = "ES" then begin
Alert(" ES @ New Overnight High: " + NumToStr(High, DecimalSpaces));
PlaySound(Text("C:\Trademechanics Data\Sounds\SnPMadeNewHighDay.wav"));
I've also an alert everytime S&P TICK goes above/below 250 which might indicate a possible rotation in price in the next couple of minutes. I've learned to love alerts.
Everything that we need to know but don't need our fullest attention, specially to look at, an alert is the way to go.
I have a couple of more alerts in mind but time has been short these couple of weeks.

Yes, the new graphic cards, almost all, support 3 screens by default. But don't forget that there are dedicated ones that support 4, 6, 8 or even 12 screens, although these usually are more expensive.

A friend of mine, last time I've spoken with him, he had 12 screens. He sent a picture and that thing was freaking awesome :D Some said that it was half way for brain cancer, all that radiation right into your eyes and face. LOLOLOLOL

And we have been talking about charts but multiple screens also helps when you need to follow a web page, an email client, twitter, music service... Instead of pulling all that in front of the charts you can have a screen for it that might be on or off if you don't want to be distracted by it during the next couple of hours.

During the weekends I've been creating different workspaces, removing charts to see how comfortable it is to remove such information from the screen. Like I said, I have too much information which can be a problem from time to time. Setting alerts is a good way to remove charts from your screen.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 02 Aug 2012

And we have been talking about charts but multiple screens also helps when you need to follow a web page, an email client, twitter, music service... Instead of pulling all that in front of the charts you can have a screen for it that might be on or off if you don't want to be distracted by it during the next couple of hours.
I have a second computer on the side with the monitor off. It runs a drone reminder all day 1/ to stay focused and 2/ to keep calm, cool and collected (both very important for trading since emotions really have no place in trading). Both drones immediately corrected the issues I was having. I also use this computer for a backup daily and a transfer to the notebooks for an extra critical file backup. Since this computer is always running. If I have a need to do email or forum during the day I will run the program on that 2nd machine and when ever I want to check email I will turn on that monitor but I like to keep it off when not in use. So I do not consider it part of the trading monitor setup. I also do not want any unneeded programs running when I already have 2 database programs running that have timers that bring the cpu usage right up to 100 percent most of the time.
During the weekends I've been creating different workspaces, removing charts to see how comfortable it is to remove such information from the screen. Like I said, I have too much information which can be a problem from time to time. Setting alerts is a good way to remove charts from your screen.
When I first started using only price action to trade as I do now, I started at Swift trade and they have 2 futures and X number of stocks on all our screens. It took me a long time to remove all this excess information and boil it down to price and RSI and my arrow placement measures for wave movement. Gee it took me 4 years of only having the futures on the screen before I noticed my first RSI bounce and now this are my primary strategy component (I now have the use of RSI to read the market at a very refined level using it for breaks and even for wave detection). I also use to use MacD but finally got rid of it since it can not nail down exact bar decisions except for cross over time which is late as most averages are and I almost instinctively could see it was going to be late right from the very beginning (probably because I was instinctively right from the beginning reading multiple levels of waves). MC actually increased what I use (10 second bars with RSI and bollinger bands). I had just started using the bollinger bands on the 1 minute bars and larger charts before I got MC. It took 6 years before I started using the bands. Actually bollinger bands was an addition of complexity (simple complexity). In the beginning I had no idea how to use them. Now it is part of the daily routine. At this point I do not see any changes except for reducing missed trades. Once you get your indicators set and your rules set I find I am going through an efficiency stage now (it is all about getting set up for trades really fast and not missing them). I seem to have master the losses thing. I started at about 80% but was very unhappy with that number. Now my losses are fairly rare but I do not predict too far ahead. I believe that to get losses way way down you need a good system and have to flip it upside down when in a trade (all rules the same basically). So basically once you get a good entry point and are in you flip the system upside down and if things do not seem to be moving you kill it before you loose that profit but if things are moving well you hang on until again trouble starts to arise (small realistic profits add up this way). At the same time if hooked too much you get out at 1 unit of profit unless you have made a serious error then you simply use the system to try and minimize the loss. Missing is my issue now. Focus was a big part of it so trading is a long period of fixing all the issues one by one. Trading is like the Olympics. Once you get all the technical stuff down pat it then becomes a mental thing (not letting the emotions screw up the decisions). Tiger Woods can do it with golf (focus fully to shut off all distraction including emotions so they fade off faster and faster if present). Trading is actually harder. You have to do this all day so using the computer to make it easier is important.

As far as seeing the RSI levels on the larger charts (which I have on the 3rd monitor in 2 rows), all I have to do is get a higher monitor (20 inch to 28 inch). That way I can stretch the charts higher. It would actually also give me more width to see more bars. I may do that yet. I can test it with the one 28 I have now. I should do that.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 02 Aug 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby TJ » 02 Aug 2012

Yes, the alerts are really helpful.

Code: Select all

UseAlerts (true),
SelectAlertSymbol ("ES"),

if SelectAlertSymbol = "ES" then begin
Alert(" ES @ New Overnight High: " + NumToStr(High, DecimalSpaces));
PlaySound(Text("C:\Trademechanics Data\Sounds\SnPMadeNewHighDay.wav"));
....
You can write the PLAYSOUND statement without the TEXT()

Code: Select all

PlaySound("C:\Trademechanics Data\Sounds\SnPMadeNewHighDay.wav");

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 02 Aug 2012

One way to get the two rows of larger charts stretched so the RSI can be more easily seen would be to have a 4th monitor so one row can go on the 3rd monitor and the other row can go on the 4th monitor (doubling the amount of space to stretch with exactly the same as that which is available for the 1 minute bars). So 5,10,15 minutes would be on monitor #3 and 30,60 and a bit of the daily bars would be on monitor #4. #4 would be stacked above #3 using a very simple open front and back wood box (30 minutes to build maybe). Because they are used less often than the 1 minute bars and 10 second bars the issue with a soar neck would not be there. I have two PCI slots used for these 3 monitors and the new PCI board can handle a 4th monitor so it is just a matter of picking up the monitor and cable and plugging it in.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 02 Aug 2012

Here we are, talking about screens and stuff but one day, all is going to be like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cf7IL_eZ38

Can you imagine...

I just pray to God that I'm alive to see it and use it.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 02 Aug 2012

This might help you get there. I was going to check into it and see if I could make 150 :-)
http://www.liveto100.com/

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 02 Aug 2012

This might help you get there. I was going to check into it and see if I could make 150 :-)
http://www.liveto100.com/
Well, you really don't need to live till 150 to see many of that technology :)
Some are already available, you just have to be rich to buy it :P

The oldest movie director still working in the world is Portuguese, 103 years old. The guy is shooting a new movie at 103 years old. How cool is that. If we're able to arrive to that age still healthy, that you be great, although truth be told with the life of a trader, the stress, the euphoria when we win, the depressions when we lose, I really can't see how to get to that age healthy :(

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby TJ » 02 Aug 2012

Yes, the alerts are really helpful.
...

Code: Select all

UseAlerts (true),
SelectAlertSymbol ("ES"),

if SelectAlertSymbol = "ES" then begin
Alert(" ES @ New Overnight High: " + NumToStr(High, DecimalSpaces));
....
you can reduce the above lines to:

Code: Select all

Alert( GETSYMBOLNAME +" @ New Overnight High: " + NumToStr(High, DecimalSpaces));

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 03 Aug 2012

Yes, the alerts are really helpful.
...

Code: Select all

UseAlerts (true),
SelectAlertSymbol ("ES"),

if SelectAlertSymbol = "ES" then begin
Alert(" ES @ New Overnight High: " + NumToStr(High, DecimalSpaces));
....
you can reduce the above lines to:

Code: Select all

Alert( GETSYMBOLNAME +" @ New Overnight High: " + NumToStr(High, DecimalSpaces));
The thing is, using the GetSymbolName keyword won't allow me to choose the alerts for it.
This specific study has 7 different alerts coded, each for a specific symbol and those 7 alerts generate another 6 for each symbol, 3 for for highs, 3 for lows.

So if I apply this study to GC, I'll write GC in the input and every time one of the areas is broken the alerts will correspond to GC, for example, if GC broke the overnight high once, after it started its RTH you'll hear - gold has just broken overnight high. Since we are in RTH a high above the overnight high would mean a new high for the day so next time GC hits a new high above the overnight you'll not hear - gold has just broken overnight high - but - gold has just made new highs for the day.
If we're trading in the ETH (overnight) then every new high you'll hear - gold has just broken overnight high.
If we're trading in the RTH, every new high below the overnight high you'll hear - gold just made new session high.

Now imagine that you apply the study to YM. All alerts would say that - dow just made.... Apply the study to 6E and you hear - euro just made.... Apply the study to ES and you hear - S&P just made....
The study is prepared to recognize 6 symbols, US, YM, NQ, ES, GC, CL and 6E.

I'm in the works writing alerts for the initial balance (first trading hour) but in a separate study. Since I'm only trading the ES and this initial balance is one of my main charts, I'll probably only create the alerts for the ES, don't need this study to be applied on the other symbols. Unfortunately time has been short. Too much stuff to do and think about and the damn day has only 24h :(

I leave an example of one of the alerts sound and an image of the study.

Image
Attachments
Full trading day.png
(67.87 KiB) Downloaded 4713 times
GoldBrokenOvernightHigh.zip
(60.08 KiB) Downloaded 141 times

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 03 Aug 2012

Too much stuff to do and think about and the damn day has only 24h
Yeah tell me about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My system is basically programmed but I still have lots of speed ups on my todo list (they just keep coming).

I was looking at your chart. It is just amazing how different people see the market totally differently. I just created a chart of notes for myself to help me trade the type of market I have the most trouble with (the spike back - which is a variant on the pullback because it has less waves to work with which help me get the nerve to take the trade). See picture. It is in no way or shape similar to your stuff. Even though what I am doing is complex to read and I think it takes a special pattern recognition ability to do it fast (and I mean you have to be really fast at it - it is one thing to have the ability to find it after the fact but to be able to anticipate it is another level above that.), it is actually fairly simple in concept which may be why I can run on only 2 gig of ram. If I could figure out how to fully program it maybe then I would need 64 gig! (probably).

Note: the picture does not show the projections of the next larger wave or two. They are pointing way up. That may be the solution, get rich so I can trade a much larger fund and just ride these using the larger projections.
Attachments
20120802_061929_ES_01_SpikeBackContraction.png
(93.8 KiB) Downloaded 4471 times
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 03 Aug 2012, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 03 Aug 2012

I remember looking at your 10 sec charts a couple of months ago and thinking, this is to fast for my head.
I trade between 1 and 3 minutes bar charts, lately more in the 3 minutes since I'm looking inside of it through the footprint chart. I'm just trading 4 or 8 ticks swings since statistically speaking all my entries rarely give me a profit higher than that. If I have a 8 tick profit, If I don't take, I'll lose it all since prices will come back to my entry. Also, if 10 minutes after my entry I'm still at break even, GET OUT! Prices will reverse against me. I was in shock when I discover this.

This is one of my ideas, to have an indicator that triggers an alarm shouting - GET OUT! YOUR TEN MINUTE WINDOW HAVE JUST FINISHED - but I have no idea if it's possible to code an indicator that retrieves information from the broker so it can be used like this. By the way, if any of you reading this thread is able to give a sample code it would be appreciated.

That chart above is a 15min chart that shows me the 24h performance of ES. I have yesterday high and low and its pivot range. I have today's overnight and today's RTH. Is it prices above, below, or inside yesterday's session? When RTH starts, where are prices? Inside overnight session? An then on another chart I have the initial balance. And compare that chart with this one. Where are we?
It's all about context. The problem is that context is what we want to see and not what the market is doing and if we're out of sync we will be slaughtered.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 03 Aug 2012

I remember looking at your 10 sec charts a couple of months ago and thinking, this is to fast for my head.
There is zero doubt, it takes practice. I have been doing it daily for a few years and starting to get pretty good at it.
It's all about context.
100% dead on. In my system the context is knowing what is going on at all times with all levels of waves (that is why I have all those chart sizes). For example, when the trend is coming down and you see the trend line coming down (line, RSI or band, whatever your fancy or whatever you happen to notice) you need to know if a barrier (boundary) below is being approached, hit or has just been hit from a larger wave at the bottom of this trend and thus the trend is likely to be reversing. If you are not aware of that bigger wave boundary and you short in blind bliss the bliss will turn to disappointment fast when that boundary exerts its force. Why? because the profit behind that bigger wave boundary is a lot larger than the profit of the smaller wave coming down so the boundary at the bottom will overpower the boundary coming down (why because the bigger traders are trading that larger wave and they have a lot more money). Trading is a busy job. And on that note, it is time to focus on trading (focus is very important so one is aware of all the context at all times).

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby bowlesj3 » 04 Aug 2012

ET OUT! YOUR TEN MINUTE WINDOW HAVE JUST FINISHED - but I have no idea if it's possible to code an indicator that retrieves information from the broker so it can be used like this. By the way, if any of you reading this thread is able to give a sample code it would be appreciated.
If MC issues the order, You should know when your order went out and just calculate a future time to check against. I do this in my database program and I get a constant read out of the number of minutes.

I have found that the length of hold really does depend on the trading situation for me (based upon wave analysis). Yes, average is about 9 minutes but the really big gainers are normally 30 minutes or longer (held over the large wave rather than the middle wave which I normally try to trade). The key is seeing a series of profit increases in the larger waves and trusting them to eventually give a bigger profit and holding on (not easy to do). So again with my type of a system (if one can do it calmly without fear screwing up your market read) the best thing to do is read the waves while in the trade using the trading rules and decide what to do on the fly. If there is a huge thrust that breaks a bunch of barrier and it is the first one out and it does not hit a (shoot for boundary in a reach) then the best bet may be to hang on all day (the larger waves will tell you that this is likely a good idea too because of their shift). When you see an expanding triangle in the larger waves and all the other waves are suggesting this with their projections this is the time to do it (the 3rd thrust out is the one you look for since the 4th almost never occurs since it would be the next day anyway).

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby NW27 » 12 Aug 2012

Hi All,

Just to get a little bit back on topic.
I have some devices that use the DisplayLink http://displaylink.com/ IC's.
These are USB to VGA adapters that support up to 2560x1600.
For driving charting monitors, they are perfect.

Personally, I use a Dell 17" laptop. It has THREE external monitors attached, so four screens all up.

2nd display - I have a Targus docking station that gives me 1 extra video port, Internally uses the displaylink IC. (New Targus docking stations use USB 3.0 and have TWO additional Video ports).

3rd display USB 2.0 to VGA (Internally uses the displaylink IC)

4th display Mini DisplayPort plugging into laptop. (ie same as used on Apple Mac's)

Neil.

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby arnie » 12 Aug 2012

Hi All,

Just to get a little bit back on topic.
I have some devices that use the DisplayLink http://displaylink.com/ IC's.
These are USB to VGA adapters that support up to 2560x1600.
For driving charting monitors, they are perfect.

Personally, I use a Dell 17" laptop. It has THREE external monitors attached, so four screens all up.

2nd display - I have a Targus docking station that gives me 1 extra video port, Internally uses the displaylink IC. (New Targus docking stations use USB 3.0 and have TWO additional Video ports).

3rd display USB 2.0 to VGA (Internally uses the displaylink IC)

4th display Mini DisplayPort plugging into laptop. (ie same as used on Apple Mac's)

Neil.
When the first USB/VGA adapters came out most complaint about the low image quality when compared with a dedicated graphic card.

Are these new adapters capable of offering sufficient image quality that permits us to watch a movie?

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Re: (not always expensive) Using MC with triple 28" monitors

Postby NW27 » 12 Aug 2012

Hi All,

Just to get a little bit back on topic.
I have some devices that use the DisplayLink http://displaylink.com/ IC's.
These are USB to VGA adapters that support up to 2560x1600.
For driving charting monitors, they are perfect.

Personally, I use a Dell 17" laptop. It has THREE external monitors attached, so four screens all up.

2nd display - I have a Targus docking station that gives me 1 extra video port, Internally uses the displaylink IC. (New Targus docking stations use USB 3.0 and have TWO additional Video ports).

3rd display USB 2.0 to VGA (Internally uses the displaylink IC)

4th display Mini DisplayPort plugging into laptop. (ie same as used on Apple Mac's)

Neil.
When the first USB/VGA adapters came out most complaint about the low image quality when compared with a dedicated graphic card.

Are these new adapters capable of offering sufficient image quality that permits us to watch a movie?
Well, I have watched video's, as in youtube etc but I have not attempted to watch DVD or Blueray.
After all, this is my trading PC and I have bought these for this application not as a media PC.

For further info, have a look on their site. http://displaylink.com/technology/common_questions.php

Neil.


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