Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 05 Apr 2011

I have never tried trading through MC before, so this might seem like a dumb question, but I wanted to try out the interface without actually putting any money at risk until I get used to it.

I have searched the forum and could not find an answer for this situation.

I set up zen-fire in the broker profile and connected. I then went to the chart trading interface and noticed that only my real money account was available and not a sim (like in NT). Is there a way to sim trade in real time using the chart trader interface without jumping through a bunch of hoops like setting up a sim account at my broker?

Thanks,
Bob Perry

User avatar
TJ
Posts: 6523
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Global Citizen
Has thanked: 957 times
Been thanked: 1883 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby TJ » 05 Apr 2011

You can try InteractiveBrokers' demo system. No registration required.

fibdax
Posts: 82
Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby fibdax » 05 Apr 2011

prices are not in the demo version of the current day

kiasom
Posts: 32
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby kiasom » 05 Apr 2011

You can login at zen with a demo login, write to your broker and they will tell you the login / psw

User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 05 Apr 2011

TJ wrote:You can try InteractiveBrokers' demo system. No registration required.
Thanks TJ. I will check it out (although I am very lazy). I was hoping, minimally, for even a simulated feed like NT has. I just want to set up and test out the chart trader to get used to it before I go live. If I have to D/L IB software, I will probably just wait until MC 7 matures a little longer and reluctantly continue to use NT for chart trading.

fibdax wrote:prices are not in the demo version of the current day
Sorry, I'm not sure what that means.

kiasom wrote:You can login at zen with a demo login, write to your broker and they will tell you the login / psw
Thanks kiasom. I called and talked to my broker at Mirus. He said they have no log-ins for demo trading. He even checked with the MC gurus at his firm. He thought MC might have a sim mode in the future.

janus
Posts: 747
Joined: 25 May 2009
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby janus » 05 Apr 2011

RobotMan wrote:I will check it out (although I am very lazy). I was hoping, minimally, for even a simulated feed like NT has. I just want to set up and test out the chart trader to get used to it before I go live. If I have to D/L IB software, I will probably just wait until MC 7 matures a little longer and reluctantly continue to use NT for chart trading.

Don't use the free IB demo system for anything but very rudimentary testing with MC. It's not designed to work the same way as the simulation and real accounts. For example, when you apply a study the first one or so orders may get processed but subsequent orders fail. At least that's been my experience. Perhaps they do this on purpose to prevent their systems being overloaded with people testing their work for free. So, if you do use it and you experience problems with your studies, it may be due to the demo account. To be on the safe side "invest' in a little money and open up an account with IB to use their simulation account, if you intend to trade with them in the long run.

User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 05 Apr 2011

Thanks janus. and thanks TJ (you really are a big help on this forum)

Well I tried to get the edemo going. I followed the MC help video and made sure click the appropriate buttons in the TWS (see TSWinfo.png). I tried to configure QM but got a strange warning (see quotemanager.png) and even though QM seemed to connect in the event log, no tick bars of any size would print in the chart. I was successful in getting the chart trader to go green and even placed orders that got back to TWS. But no chart:no go further. So I wasted enough time on trying and realize I am just not smart enough.

I'm just not going to dick around with this. I swear that a fair amount of the questions on this forum are about MC communicating with IB. I know alot of people love IB, but, because of their flaky data and all the problems people have with MC/IB, I will never be one of them.

MC should just have a sim data stream to get people up and running and comfortable with Chart Trader. That's the bottom line. It's not a bug. It's not a feature request. It's just good business.
Attachments
quotemanager.png
quotemanager.png (113.66 KiB) Viewed 326 times
TWSinfo.png
TWSinfo.png (94.46 KiB) Viewed 335 times
Last edited by RobotMan on 05 Apr 2011, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TJ
Posts: 6523
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Global Citizen
Has thanked: 957 times
Been thanked: 1883 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby TJ » 05 Apr 2011

You have to enable DDE client in TWS (2nd check box) so that it would allow MC to grab data from TWS.

User avatar
TJ
Posts: 6523
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Global Citizen
Has thanked: 957 times
Been thanked: 1883 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby TJ » 05 Apr 2011

RobotMan wrote:
fibdax wrote:prices are not in the demo version of the current day
Sorry, I'm not sure what that means.
...


the IB demo system streams yesterday's old data, not real time data.

the purpose of the demo system is for traders to do preliminary testing of their systems.



IB has another service called Paper Trading Account. It is a duplicate of a client's real account, ie. real data, real time, real authorization limits (eg. margin limit, portfolio limits, etc.), but simulated executions. This free service is for clients only.

User avatar
TJ
Posts: 6523
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Global Citizen
Has thanked: 957 times
Been thanked: 1883 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby TJ » 05 Apr 2011

RobotMan wrote:Thanks janus. and thanks TJ (you really are a big help on this forum)
....

Thanks for the good words.

User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 05 Apr 2011

TJ wrote:You have to enable DDE client in TWS (2nd check box) so that it would allow MC to grab data from TWS.
I tried to. I got this (see DDEdll.png). A webpage opened and I instantly became irritated that I had to download more software (the edemo is a self contained java program I thought).
I still never got any data, so I opened up the MC help video again. Clicking on DDE is never mentioned and is left unselected (see Video.png). So I figure I am still not getting it and calling it a night.

Thanks, TJ. I appreciate the help.

~Bob
Attachments
DDEdll.png
DDEdll.png (15.38 KiB) Viewed 315 times
Video.png
Video.png (52.3 KiB) Viewed 321 times

janus
Posts: 747
Joined: 25 May 2009
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby janus » 05 Apr 2011

TJ wrote:You have to enable DDE client in TWS (2nd check box) so that it would allow MC to grab data from TWS.

I don't have it checked yet it all works fine for me. I believe MC uses sockets not DDE to communicate with TWS. The only difference I have in the TWS config is I've added 127.0.0.1 to the trusted IP addresses list.

RobotMan, make sure you have the latest TWS client installed. You should have a "Check for TWS Updates" in your Startup group. If you don't then go to IB's web site and install the latest TWS Windows client. Finally, make sure you have the latest IB datafeed update, unless you are using the latest MC7 Beta1 package - see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8221 if you are using MC6.

User avatar
TJ
Posts: 6523
Joined: 29 Aug 2006
Location: Global Citizen
Has thanked: 957 times
Been thanked: 1883 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby TJ » 05 Apr 2011

janus wrote:
TJ wrote:You have to enable DDE client in TWS (2nd check box) so that it would allow MC to grab data from TWS.

I don't have it checked yet it all works fine for me. I believe MC uses sockets not DDE to communicate with TWS. The only difference I have in the TWS config is I've added 127.0.0.1 to the trusted IP addresses list.

you are right... DDE is not needed.


RobotMan, make sure you have the latest TWS client installed. You should have a "Check for TWS Updates" in your Startup group. If you don't then go to IB's web site and install the latest TWS Windows client. Finally, make sure you have the latest IB datafeed update, unless you are using the latest MC7 Beta1 package - see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8221 if you are using MC6.

he is using the Demo system, not the "real" TWS... ie everything is downloaded on the fly.

janus
Posts: 747
Joined: 25 May 2009
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby janus » 05 Apr 2011

TJ wrote:he is using the Demo system, not the "real" TWS... ie everything is downloaded on the fly.


Not sure what you mean. I've also used the demo system (username edemo or pdemo) successfully (except for the issues I've mentioned before).

kiasom
Posts: 32
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby kiasom » 06 Apr 2011

kiasom wrote:You can login at zen with a demo login, write to your broker and they will tell you the login / psw

Thanks kiasom. I called and talked to my broker at Mirus. He said they have no log-ins for demo trading. He even checked with the MC gurus at his firm. He thought MC might have a sim mode in the future.


I'm myself at Mirus , and they do have a demo login for clients, which will give you a realtime tick flow: login: mirus.webinar, psw: zenfire

User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 06 Apr 2011

kiasom wrote:I'm myself at Mirus , and they do have a demo login for clients, which will give you a realtime tick flow
Hi kiasom, Thank you so much! Maybe the broker was blowing me off or just didn't know.

I plugged the demo login/pwd into the Chart Trader and the little icon went from red to green, the buttons became "functional" - however, I was very underwhelmed by the performance.

I was able to push the buttons but unable to push orders out or receive any fills. I even tried with my real live cash account, tried to place market orders, and the same thing happened. No orders placed inspite of me pushing buttons and dragging orders onto the chart. There are no instruction in the MC 7 help file on how to get the Chart Trader up and running or how to troubleshoot it or even how to configure the manual orders or exits. Example: When I drag a limit order above the market it asks me if I want to place an order to "buy" and when I drag a limit order below the market it asks me if I want to place an order to "sell". Nonsensical. Another example: I push the button "buy bid" and I get a pop up saying that bids/asks are not recognized/used for this instrument (it was ES). I logged out of Zen-Fire and got out of MC. I logged into my Mirus account and no orders had been received or filled for the time period I was messing around with Chart Trader and my live account settings in MC.

I'm sure others are happily using MultiCharts Discretionary Trader and Chart Trader in MC7. I am sure I must be doing something wrong like forgetting to click on a checkbox, but, as a beta tester and a new user of ChartTrader, I am having too much trouble to get it to work and will return to NT.

PS: kiasom, you might want to edit your post and remove the login and pwd or everyone will be grabbing it and using it. Thanks!

User avatar
Stan Bokov
Posts: 963
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Has thanked: 367 times
Been thanked: 300 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby Stan Bokov » 08 Apr 2011

A simulation server in MultiCharts is a serious undertaking, and cannot be accomplished quickly. However, we are seriously considering adding this feature to MultiCharts in order to make it a more complete trading platform. At the moment there is no ETA, but we are evaluating different approaches. The final goal is to have a "fake" broker connection available for real-time and backtesting purposes, which would simulate available volume, order processing delays, etc. All of this would improve the accuracy of strategy and manual trading testing, and minimize assumptions during the testing stage.

User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 09 Apr 2011

Stan Bokov wrote:A simulation server in MultiCharts is a serious undertaking, and cannot be accomplished quickly. However, we are seriously considering adding this feature to MultiCharts in order to make it a more complete trading platform. At the moment there is no ETA, but we are evaluating different approaches. The final goal is to have a "fake" broker connection available for real-time and backtesting purposes, which would simulate available volume, order processing delays, etc. All of this would improve the accuracy of strategy and manual trading testing, and minimize assumptions during the testing stage.
Hi Stan,
So let me get this straight. MC comes up with a new feature; Chart Trader. There is no documentation on how to set it up or use it, I am confused as hell, and I have to use my real money account to fiddle around setting it up and I have to go back and forth between the forum and real live trading with real live money until I figure out how it works.
Maybe the Alpha testers have no problems at all and maybe I am way off base, but as a beta tester, I think this is a non-starter for me.

~Bob Perry

User avatar
Stan Bokov
Posts: 963
Joined: 18 Dec 2009
Has thanked: 367 times
Been thanked: 300 times

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby Stan Bokov » 12 Apr 2011

I am sorry for any confusion. The documentation is being drafted for MC7 release, currently there is information available on the blog describing the new features. It's pretty thorough, what else do you want to know about Chart Trader at this point?

You DON'T need to use real money to test chart trading, however, if you are dedicated to using MC and Zen-Fire to test there isn't anything to use other than real money. We are currently testing the Zen-Fire connection on a real account as well, to make improvements for further betas and the release. There is no sim trading provided within MultiCharts, and there is no sim account (as far as I know) provided by Zen-Fire yet. With MultiCharts, the only way to test right now is to use a simulated (paper) account with a broker that gives you one - MB Trading, OEC, Interactive Brokers are some that give you one.

Both Zen-Fire and MultiCharts are planning to introduce simulated trading capabilities in the future.

User avatar
RobotMan
Posts: 375
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Location: Los Altos, California, USA
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: Sim mode in MC 7 chart trader?

Postby RobotMan » 12 Apr 2011

Ok, Thanks Stan.

~Bob


Return to “MultiCharts”