Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

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Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 20 Jul 2011

I am currently in the process of upgrading my systems from TS2ki (yes, I still use this :) to MC7 and wondering if it makes sense to keep how I am getting my data the old fashion way into MC7.

Current setup:

Data provider -> Excel DDE -> MetaSever -> GlobalSever -> Quotemanager -> MC7 (only benefit here is that I can also bring up charts using TS2K and sometimes compare stuff but since I won't be using TS2K for during live trading, I don't know if the benefits justify the lengthy connection hence any loss of data or potential danger.

Future setup:

Data provider -> Excel DDE -> QuoteManager -> MC7

Since MC7 can read straight from Excel DDE won't this make more sense? I've haven't tried yet but I will still be able to store the data inside the QuoteManger this way correct?

Any thoughts on advantages and disadvantages will be appreciated.

Thanks much!

MN

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby CrazyNasdaq » 22 Jul 2011

Using excel and DDE could be a solution, but you have to know what you are using and you have to know that you are using a very old technology created when the markets was very different form today markets.
Here you can find all about DDE protocol http://www.angelfire.com/biz/rhaminisys/ddeinfo.html written in 1990 and today supported by microsoft only for backward compatibility, but not upgraded anymore from years.
As you can read in that web page, you can loose many data expecially if your rate of refresh and your speed of data is very quick as today markets are. Consider that the new markets protocols as Fix Fast on CME or Eurex Exchange work with milliseconds instead of seconds and if you trade futures and take care of volume and tick data and tick frequencies you have many probabilities to loose many ticks and many data because of the DDE protocol without any chance to get it back and reload it.
This way with DDE and today fast market you would have a proxy of what really happened in the market.
It's like take a challenge with a Ferrari Formula 1 when you drive a horse-drawn carriage. You have lost before the start.
DDE could be a solution in my opinion only if you use minute bars or daily bars and you don't take care of tick/Volume data.
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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 24 Jul 2011

Hello CrazyNasdaq,

Thank you much for your insight and thoughts. I am always learning and I totally agree that I am behind in getting the proper data feed and maximizing my chances. As for the excel DDE, I wish I had access to the fast fix protocol as you have enlightened.

Unfortunately, I am overseas and trading the local Asian markets and besides the couple of so called so-so data vendors, I am limited to the DDE data feed offerered by the brokers getting the realtime data. Hence it was my decision to rather than making myself dependent on unreliable and expensive data vendors that I get at least a consistent DDE feed from the brokers. Another main reason was to use the DDE was so that I can define and calcualte my own custom symbols which relies e.g. on all of the option chains' bid, ask, greeks, volume and price and I can calculate that one particular symbol in excel and just pull that into QM rather than storing tens and tens of symbols (including ticks) just to actually use one resulting calculation from all of them..

Thanks to you I have learned the limitations of the DDE and wondering what I can do to enhance my data feed under the limited envrioment here. I do have a question which might go into a different subject but now that everyone is into HFT and miliseconds, etc. aren't there still limitations on what we can do with MC, TS in actually taking such fine data and acting upon it? I mean since that ordering off from exotic charts do have its shortfalls and the language cannot for example order, limit exit, cancel if not filled in miliseconds, buy at bid-1, cancel if not filled the next tick, etc, etc, I am wondering if getting the all the ticks in miliseconds will give me the definite advantage I need.

I am therefore currently trading by getting the proxy of the market breadth based not on price but other custom symbols I believe that is more representation of the market than the price..

Appreciate your thoughts..

MN

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby CrazyNasdaq » 24 Jul 2011

Hi mno,

I'll try to answer to your questions telling you my thoughts which are not regards you but the actual situation of the market. You have to consider that you will never be at the level of the HFTraders because of they usually have their own servers located inside the market and don't usually use external data vendor as we normal traders use. They usually rent servers directly form the CME or Eurex or FTSE and so on, so they have a direct access to market either for quotes and orders execution. Then it doesn't end here. They use very sophisticated protocols and trading systems which connect each other many markets and many instruments with a portfolio logical behaviour. With this logical operating environment and target, milliseconds make the difference, but for normal traders milliseconds is not so important for the order execution if you don't look for High Frequency trading operations in your trading.
Milliseconds is important to have good data to analyze the market, specially if you look for a good depth of market analisys regards volume.
Remember that you, as a retail trader , are forced to use retail data vendor and not professional data vendor which have monthly fee very very high for normal retail traders. You usually use retail broker and not direct access to the market to insert your order (usually from one to 5 or 6 at least and not hundreds in the same seconds in differents markets) and last but not least, usually you don't have a portfolio logical trading system which connects each market and different instruments in the same time as "Big Boys" as Goldman or others have.
So this way you have to make a question to yourself. Do you really need the power that these "Big Guys" have to insert your order and make your trading ? Do you have the money to stay in the market and add to your position as they do ?
If the answer is "NO" as probably I suppose, my suggestion is ........ don't try to "MAKE" the market to make profit (which is not so easy as most traders know), but try to follow the market from a position possibly very very close to the market trend.
Don't try to stay in front of the market but try to stay very close after it.
If you look for a very good software to accomplish this second behaviour, Multicharts is a very good one that match your criteria and can help you in your trading, specially if you are able to program your indicators and logics.
For the custom instruments that you create with excel, make a deep search in this forum and you will find that is possible to create custom instruments and custom programming for all you need, even without passing by excel. As usually I use to say, the limit with multicharts is your fantasy because if you want and you can think of it, it's very probably that Multicharts can do it in a way that you can't imagine now.
Think different because the reality is there under your eyes, but you can't see it now because of we all usually think in a standard way using what is already done.
Try to create YOUR new way that will free you from standard schemes :-) :-)
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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby TJ » 24 Jul 2011

mno wrote:Hello CrazyNasdaq,

Thank you much for your insight and thoughts. I am always learning and I totally agree that I am behind in getting the proper data feed and maximizing my chances. As for the excel DDE, I wish I had access to the fast fix protocol as you have enlightened.

Unfortunately, I am overseas and trading the local Asian markets and besides the couple of so called so-so data vendors, I am limited to the DDE data feed offerered by the brokers getting the realtime data. ...

Appreciate your thoughts..

MN


Excel DDE works best at one update every 2 seconds.

There is not enough capacity to handle the volume and speed of data you are interested.
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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 24 Jul 2011

Hello TJ,

I am currently refreshing every 1 seconds and so far it seems to be ok. I will try refreshing every 2 seconds on a different computer and see in couple of days of the differences.. Thanks for your advice.

MN

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 24 Jul 2011

Hello CrazyNasdaq,

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, the answer is definate "No" - I am not in the league to trade against the "Big Boys". I'd be lucky if I can follow their tail on a consistent basis. I will keep trying to find my sweet spot thinking beyond the norm.

Your encouragement is also appreciated.

MN

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby CrazyNasdaq » 24 Jul 2011

You are welcome !!!
Have good trades
CrazyNasdaq
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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 07 Aug 2012

I am still stuck using DDE but now, I am little frustrated since I am getting different results between same two servers, same set up - I mean everything, and the data inside the Globalservers differ by 10X in terms of volume. One server's Globalserver is fed with over 100,000 ticks and the other with 21,000 ticks. I wanted the latter.

Here's the situation:

DDE <-> Excel Refreshed every 2 seconds -> Metaserver -> Globalserver -> MC

Two identical setups but some days, they both receive about 21,000 ticks a day, on some days, the other gets over 100,000. Terrible.

Anyone kind to advise what could be wrong?

I am thinking that maybe I should just get arid of the Globalserver completely and read directly from Excel -> Quotemanager.

I am using the data from excel to generate a custom indicator to proxy the market so currently I have no other solution than to use the excel DDE.

Thanks much!
mno

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 10 Aug 2012

Mno, this does not look like MultiCharts problem.
You can get the data from Excel directly to MultiCharts.
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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby hellboy » 16 Nov 2012

Henry MultiСharts wrote:Mno, this does not look like MultiCharts problem.
You can get the data from Excel directly to MultiCharts.


Hi there, Henry
Can you elaborate on how to get data directly from Excel, because my broker has a facility where in the real time data is written to the Excel file in real time, I want to import the same to Multicharts, can it be doen, if yes how, please the steps
On the Universal DDE set up there is no excel template, may I have to create one, how to do that.
Suppose my excel sheets name is "Marketdata" and the symbol name is "RAD" , how to connect the data to quote manager , I Open,High,Low ,Close and Volume for the minute data, and for tick data I need to import Close and Vol fields with timestamp of course.Please help.

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby hellboy » 16 Nov 2012

OK, after watching the Video it seems, I can go ahead with the setup, will revert back in case of specific issues.Thanks.

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby hellboy » 19 Nov 2012

Followed all the steps exactly as detailed in the video, but test failed, it shows waiting.Any help is appreciated.Thank you.

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 19 Nov 2012

Hello Hellboy,

To get the data from Excel please do the following:
Create a book - book1.xls and save it to “My documents”.
In Excel set the coordinates to R1C1format (Excel options->formulas-> working with formulas->activate R1C1 reference style).
All other fields that should be filled will look like:
=EXCEL|'[Book1.xls]Sheet1'!*
it means:
=EXCEL<vertical line>[<file name with the extension>]!*

Adding a symbol:
For example R2C2, where R - the row number, С - the column number.

More information regarding features, limitations and setup can be found in our wiki section: Universal DDE
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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby hellboy » 19 Nov 2012

Henry MultiСharts wrote:Hello Hellboy,

To get the data from Excel please do the following:
Create a book - book1.xls and save it to “My documents”.
In Excel set the coordinates to R1C1format (Excel options->formulas-> working with formulas->activate R1C1 reference style).
All other fields that should be filled will look like:
=EXCEL|'[Book1.xls]Sheet1'!*
it means:
=EXCEL<vertical line>[<file name with the extension>]!*

Adding a symbol:
For example R2C2, where R - the row number, С - the column number.

More information regarding features, limitations and setup can be found in our wiki section: Universal DDE


Kudos to Multicharts Team and Support people, fantastic job indeed, finally I could plot the chart via DDE Excel, hats off .
Mine is MC8, 64 bit, WIN7,Excel 2010.
Its working like charm, even while Chrome browser is on.regards.

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 15 Jan 2013

I've set up everything correct and able to receive data once "Test" is performed. Given this, I was expecting the QM to automatically receive the data from Excel DDE the next morning but unless I go back to QM -> Data Source -> Universal Excel DDE -> Edit -> Test again, the data won't load to QM.

What am I doing wrong? Is this a bug?

Thank you.

mno

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 17 Jan 2013

Hello mno,

Please provide the following information for analysis (you can attach it to your forum post or send to my email support@multicharts.com):
1) MultiCharts version and build number (Help -> About MultiCharts);
2) MS Excel version;
3) Excel worksheet;
4) Export of intruments (in QuoteManager select the symbols you are using, make a right click on then->Export data->Export instrument);
5) Screenshot of DDE settings (QuoteManager->Tools->DataSources->UniversalDDE)

mno wrote:the data won't load to QM

Are you referring to "Collect Data without plotting" feature?

In case you are unable to get the data on the charts please also send me the workspaces you are using in MultiCharts.

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Re: Reading directly from Excel DDE vs Globalserver

Postby mno » 18 Jan 2013

I will follow-up on my original query after performing more tests. I am trying to completely skip the whole TS Globalserver + MetaServer dependencies and read straight from Excel DDE into QM - and here I am obvisouly running into some unfamiliar territories. Being not able to read into QM maybe my fault or misunderstanding so I will update you soon. Thank you again for all your help.

mno


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