GFT broker and datafeed

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Fabrice Daniel
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GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Fabrice Daniel » 10 Jan 2012

Hi,

Is there a plan to add GFT Forex as a broker and/or datafeed provider ?

Thank you
Best Regards

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 10 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:Hi,

Is there a plan to add GFT Forex as a broker and/or datafeed provider ?

Thank you
Best Regards

Hello Fabrice.
Currently there is no plan to add GFT Forex as broker or datafeed.

Fabrice Daniel
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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Fabrice Daniel » 10 Jan 2012

Ok Thank you

Regards

Tresor
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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 11 Jan 2012

Henry Multicharts wrote:Currently there is no plan to add GFT Forex as broker or datafeed.


Is there a plan to add new broker(s) other than GFT?

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 12 Jan 2012

There are no specific details at the moment.
The list of currently supported brokers can be found at this page.

Please follow us on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and our Traders’ Blog to get the latest updates about new additions to MultiCharts.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Henry Multicharts wrote:The list of currently supported brokers can be found at this page.


Henry, when manual trading feature was added, MC platform became the best frontend for technical analysis and for trading. Your product development is a triple-A one.

The list you show was okay a year ago (before manual trading was added). Now your list of supported brokers (with exception of Interactive Brokers) simply doesn't match your product quality.

____________________________________________________________________________

With the current state of MC, you should already:
(i) be kicking MetaQuotes' asses for at least half a year;
(ii) have a queue of tens of prop shops, trading rooms, brokers and bank's dealing rooms paying you to get MC hooked to their Currenexes, FXalls, etc.
(iii) be driving Ferrari.

With the current state of MC, I should at least:
(i) have a better selection of forex brokers


Guys, what's happening? I cannot find (no bucket shop) big forex names on your list of supported brokers.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby khalaad » 13 Jan 2012

Tresor wrote: With the current state of MC, you should already:
(i) be kicking MetaQuotes' asses for at least half a year;
(ii) have a queue of tens of prop shops, trading rooms, brokers and bank's dealing rooms paying you to get MC hooked to their Currenexes, FXalls, etc.

Will probably never happen!

MetaQuotes customers are the bucket shops, MultiCharts customers are largely the traders.

Khalid

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

khalaad wrote:MetaQuotes customers are the bucket shops


Since yesterday I am alpha testing MT4 that is a part of soon to be launched FXall retail project ($25 k funding requirement instead of $1 million). I should be alpha testing MC FXall, not MT4 FXall!

Fabrice Daniel
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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Fabrice Daniel » 13 Jan 2012

With the current state of MC, I should at least:
(i) have a better selection of forex brokers


Bucket Shops are BBook based companies. They don't exist anymore in US, the BBook is forbiden since the rules have changed, only STP hedging is allowed and the "Stupid Hedging capability" offered by MT4 is eliminated now.

I say "stupid hedging" because it has nothing to do with hedging which consist of covering an instrument or a portfolio by another one. The purpose is not to close out your position but to remove one of the variable of your risk. For instance if you are a volatility trader, you may want to remove the price component from your option position buying or selling the underlying - so you trade the volatility, not the price. And if you are a Fund Manager, selling some Units in EUR, USD or JPY and having a portfolio including many assets in many currencies, you may want to cover you currency risk, so you hedge your currency risk buying or selling Forwards Outrights according to your balances, ...

Now since the rules have changed the US brokers cannot anymore win from your losses, they can only be paid by a markup.

A friend, former director of a big US broker, said that since this rule is in place their revenues decreased but on the other side they are much more steady, less volatile. That's totally normal.

The Bucket Shops still exists, they are mainly in Europe. They are easy to identify, they propose the famous "MT4 Hedging Feature", and sometime a "Bonus" for the new accounts. They also propose 100:1 leverage !! which is totally stupid, some of them are even proposing 400:1. In US now 100:1 is forbiden, I think the max is 50:1 which is too high, but better than 100:1; The reason for these leverages is simple, they are used by people and they profit to the BBook (no hedging from the broker). When you use such leverage, your stop loss distance becomes dramatically tight, because of the Broker automatic risk close out. And because there is no strategy having a MAE (Max Adverse Excursion) equal to zero or even very small most of the time, you are always stop too early. And erverytime you are stopped out, your loss directly goes into the BBook as a profit.

Now I agree that having Currenex or Hotspot could be very valuable, like any ECN (Integral for instance is another one). Today ECN connection exists with MC: IB, MBTrading and Dukascopy.

One of the Best Criteria to make sure you have a good prices with fair execution (no BBook, so no conflict of interest) is to only trade with brokers charging commissions on your trades. The ECN generally doesn't have markup, they are 100% transparent and charge a commission.

So to avoid bucket shops, start opening an Account in US and never in a UK or Cyprus, only have look to ECN and prefer paying commissions than having a markuped price.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby SP » 13 Jan 2012

Tresor wrote: I cannot find (no bucket shop) big forex names on your list of supported brokers.


It seems that the spread and the offer to view the Level II is ok at http://www.lmax.com/

I have not tested their new DOM Trading and API connection to Multicharts, but it looks better than at most other vendors.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby khalaad » 13 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:
With the current state of MC, I should at least:
(i) have a better selection of forex brokers


Bucket Shops are BBook based companies. They don't exist anymore in US, the BBook is forbiden since the rules have changed, only STP hedging is allowed and the "Stupid Hedging capability" offered by MT4 is eliminated now.

I say "stupid hedging" because it has nothing to do with hedging which consist of covering an instrument or a portfolio by another one. The purpose is not to close out your position but to remove one of the variable of your risk. For instance if you are a volatility trader, you may want to remove the price component from your option position buying or selling the underlying - so you trade the volatility, not the price. And if you are a Fund Manager, selling some Units in EUR, USD or JPY and having a portfolio including many assets in many currencies, you may want to cover you currency risk, so you hedge your currency risk buying or selling Forwards Outrights according to your balances, ...

Now since the rules have changed the US brokers cannot anymore win from your losses, they can only be paid by a markup.

A friend, former director of a big US broker, said that since this rule is in place their revenues decreased but on the other side they are much more steady, less volatile. That's totally normal.

The Bucket Shops still exists, they are mainly in Europe. They are easy to identify, they propose the famous "MT4 Hedging Feature", and sometime a "Bonus" for the new accounts. They also propose 100:1 leverage !! which is totally stupid, some of them are even proposing 400:1. In US now 100:1 is forbiden, I think the max is 50:1 which is too high, but better than 100:1; The reason for these leverages is simple, they are used by people and they profit to the BBook (no hedging from the broker). When you use such leverage, your stop loss distance becomes dramatically tight, because of the Broker automatic risk close out. And because there is no strategy having a MAE (Max Adverse Excursion) equal to zero or even very small most of the time, you are always stop too early. And erverytime you are stopped out, your loss directly goes into the BBook as a profit.

Now I agree that having Currenex or Hotspot could be very valuable, like any ECN (Integral for instance is another one). Today ECN connection exists with MC: IB, MBTrading and Dukascopy.

One of the Best Criteria to make sure you have a good prices with fair execution (no BBook, so no conflict of interest) is to only trade with brokers charging commissions on your trades. The ECN generally doesn't have markup, they are 100% transparent and charge a commission.

So to avoid bucket shops, start opening an Account in US and never in a UK or Cyprus, only have look to ECN and prefer paying commissions than having a markuped price.

Fabrice,

Try telling the above to a MF Global victim.

Bucket Shop is not an entity; it's an attitude.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/francinemck ... oming-out/

Khalid

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:Today ECN connection exists with MC: IB, MBTrading and Dukascopy.


MB and Dukascopy are bucketshops. The only trades that are not internally bucketed (sent to prime brokers for execution) are their own 'hedging' trades.

Just read their agreements.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

While I think MC product is triple-A, its forex broker integration is triple-C.

From what I see MetaQuotes' strategy for MT4 has been to start with bucketshops and then climb the ladder towards non-bucketshop quality brokers. And their strategy works.

I think MC might consider starting from prime brokers (who consistently lower their requirements for retail traders) and climb down the ladder.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:The Bucket Shops still exists, they are mainly in Europe. They are easy to identify, they propose the famous "MT4 Hedging Feature", and sometime a "Bonus" for the new accounts. They also propose 100:1 leverage !! which is totally stupid, some of them are even proposing 400:1. In US now 100:1 is forbiden, I think the max is 50:1 which is too high, but better than 100:1.


You cannot distinguish a backetshop from a non-bucketshop by looking at leverage. Leverage is only a credit facility granted to you by your broker or by your bank. It is possible (although noone tried to my knowledge) to get 1:10,000 leverage facility from Barclays, Deutsche or Rabo.

Fabrice Daniel wrote:So to avoid bucket shops, start opening an Account in US and never in a UK or Cyprus, only have look to ECN and prefer paying commissions than having a markuped price.


To avoid bucketshops open your account in a prime broker (location is not important). Many ECNs both charge commish and have price markup, only you do not know about it.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Stan Bokov » 13 Jan 2012

Tresor wrote:With the current state of MC, you should already:
(i) be kicking MetaQuotes' asses for at least half a year;
(ii) have a queue of tens of prop shops, trading rooms, brokers and bank's dealing rooms paying you to get MC hooked to their Currenexes, FXalls, etc.
(iii) be driving Ferrari.


Thank you for the compliments. We are actually working toward the goals that you eloquently summarized above, and they are in-progress. We try to utilize our resources as efficiently as possible to roll our features necessary to the majority of users first, and then switch to other ones. Also, if you have contacts that would want MC hooked up to their backends, send them my way.

With the current state of MC, I should at least:
(i) have a better selection of forex brokers


Again, we try to utilize limited resources to achieve the maximum potential for our users and our company. Having more supported brokers is definitely a good idea, and one we hope to address in a sooner-rather-than-later fashion. In the meantime, we have key features (such as true 64-bitness) that we need to finish. We definitely appreciate your support and look forward to adding as many brokers as possible to the MultiCharts platform.

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TJ
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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby TJ » 13 Jan 2012

Are there any MT4 brokers/shops that also accept other charting/trading program?

I am asking because I don't know, I don't use MT4, and do not have an account with any of the shops. At a glance, it seems they are all exclusive.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Stan Bokov wrote:Also, if you have contacts that would want MC hooked up to their backends, send them my way.


I do not have such contacts, but I have recently visited a dealing room in a local bank and found out that traders there use a stone age charting software.

Look at this: http://www.rabobank.com/content/images/ ... xample.swf platform internally developed by one of the biggest institutional and retail forex player on the planet: http://www.rabobank.com/content/product ... t/tab2.jsp

This bank and its forex clients should kiss your feet for offering them an integration with MC and should pay nicely. Why not contact them with a presentation / video of MC capabilities?

Stan Bokov wrote:Again, we try to utilize limited resources to achieve the maximum potential for our users and our company. Having more supported brokers is definitely a good idea, and one we hope to address in a sooner-rather-than-later fashion.


You already managed to create a complete top-notch product. No need to work too much on it. Now it's your selliing / earning harvest time! Connect it to prime brokers and (i) numerous serious clients will start buying licences, (ii) existing users will enjoy better broker options.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Fabrice Daniel » 13 Jan 2012

You cannot distinguish a backetshop from a non-bucketshop by looking at leverage. Leverage is only a credit facility granted to you by your broker or by your bank. It is possible (although noone tried to my knowledge) to get 1:10,000 leverage facility from Barclays, Deutsche or Rabo.


I know that, my tips is a quick "filter" for retail trader not knowing anything about this business. You will not avoid all of the Buckets (I mean by Bucket the companies making most of their P&L from their BBook). But if we start talking about PB, LPs, Giveup, Billateral agreement, NOP, DSL, 1% of the people here will understand.

regarding the 1:10 000 at DB, Barx or rabo? what kind of "leverage" are you talking about ? They don't give you a credit line based, so based on your NOP and DSL ?

Many ECNs both charge commish and have price markup, only you do not know about it.


It's true thats two models exists but the easiest to understand is the commission one. You can simply have a look at your price when you bid to check if they are modified in the market depth. But in any case the broker is supposed to explain his commission model.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Fabrice Daniel » 13 Jan 2012

MB and Dukascopy are bucketshops. The only trades that are not internally bucketed (sent to prime brokers for execution) are their own 'hedging' trades.

Just read their agreements.


Are you sure ? I will check their agreement. The Dukascopy CEO wanted to met me several years ago to explain its Business Model, it was just when they started to launch their ECN I think ... But I never had time to meet him in Geneva, so now I cannot be 100% sure of what they do and what is the execution model.

I will check their paper and ask to friends working with them.

Regarding MB, I'm just starting testing with them and will open a test live account. I will check it too. Do you have any experience with these two brokers ? or known issues or problems ?

Thanks

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:regarding the 1:10 000 at DB, Barx or rabo? what kind of "leverage" are you talking about ? They don't give you a credit line based, so based on your NOP and DSL ?


They give you a credit line based on your creditworthiness (or at least they should). I worked for one of the three banks mentioned above (corporate banking and corparate finance depts.). It is at the will of the applicant and the decision of the credit committee to grant a particular leverage. Theoretically you can apply for whatever leverage you want and the credit committee can grant that leverage to you. However none of the businesses ever applied for a higher than 1:20 leverage at the time I worked in this bank.

Let's assume your net worth is $1 billion. You can easily get 1:10,000 leverage on a $ 1k deposit with your $ 1 billion worth of assets as collateral.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:Are you sure ?


Yes.

Fabrice Daniel wrote:Do you have any experience with these two brokers ? or known issues or problems ?


I use one of them. Both are decent bucketshops worth recommending.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Fabrice Daniel » 13 Jan 2012

Let's assume your net worth is $1 billion. You can easily get 1:10,000 leverage on a $ 1k deposit with your $ 1 billion worth of assets as collateral.


Ok I understand why you are talking about this "1:10000". Your credit is based on the client collateral (with an % haircut applied depending on its nature I supposed). I suppose this credit line depends on the client activity. A corporate mainly using this credit facility to buy/sell Forwards and hedge its foreign currencies is less "at risk" than a pure speculator. For instance he cover the risk on cash received from contracts in 3 months, its global balance,Tenor 3M is safe, he's only paying for the cost of carry. So I supposed that most of the time the 1k cover the swap points of Swaps Traders or does such structure exist for spot traders as well ?

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 13 Jan 2012

Fabrice Daniel wrote:Ok I understand why you are talking about this "1:10000".


Why I am talking about this? - just to show you that leverage is pretty unimportant when drawing conclusions about brokers. The 1:10,000 leverage was the idea of a head of a dealing room in a bank. Imagine he wasn't drunk when comming up with that leverage. Such leverage is theoretically possible and violates nothing.

Fabrice Daniel wrote:Your credit is based on the client collateral (with an % haircut applied depending on its nature I supposed). I suppose this credit line depends on the client activity.


It depends on nothing frankly. I just made up the 1 billion story. But even your grandpa can give you 1:10,000 with 1 billion collateral. If there are brokers out there that have resources to offer you a 1:10,000 leverage, then it is neither good or bad. It just is.

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Re: GFT broker and datafeed

Postby Tresor » 20 Jan 2012

There is is / was a trading platform called Strategy Runner. The company behind this software was bought three months ago by MF Global http://www.strategyrunner.com/Content/c ... ?view=News MF Global went bankrupt 2 months ago. Strategy Runner's future is either uncertain or there is already no future for this platform (no sales, no technical support).

Strategy Runner is listed by a number of brokers (forex brokers inclusive). A few examples below:
http://vcapfutures.com/futures-trading- ... egy-runner
http://www.rcgdirect.com/TradingPlatfor ... ?sender=35
http://dormantrading.com/OnlineTrading/ ... unner.aspx
http://www.advantagefutures.com/Tech_St ... unner.html

You can easily take over SR's market.


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