Options Module in MC  [SOLVED]

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TonyB
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Options Module in MC

Postby TonyB » 30 Jan 2013

There were plans before to have an options offering within MC. To make sure I am not mistaken, I just found this:

https://www.multicharts.com/pm/viewissue ... _no=MC-253

Any reason why it was declined? It was slated for MC 7 at one time...

Sure, I trade futures, but mostly equities and options. There are a ton of folks trading options these days; and we'd love to have the power and flexibility of MC.

TS didn't have much in the way of option support not so long ago, and now it's actually pretty good. I'd like to think that MC can do the same, and in MC fashion, even better...
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Andrew MultiCharts
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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby Andrew MultiCharts » 30 Jan 2013

Hello TonyB,

At the moment we don't plan to optimize MultiCharts for trading options, however i will double check it with our development team and management and let you know if there any changes in this course.

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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby TonyB » 30 Jan 2013

Andrew, thank you for the prompt reply.

We hope that MC's management and development team will have interest in making this happen. From a business perspective or stand-point, I personally feel that it would be prudent for MC to incorporate options into the platform. This would attract a whole new, and larger client base to MC. It would also pull-in other futures traders who have considered MC before, but because they also trade options and / or manage other accounts using options, felt it best to stay with their current platform that can satisfy these needs.

You all have relationships with a few brokers who handle a wide variety of asset classes, including options, so that's good.

Maybe from a development perspective this would be extremely challenging and present huge hurdles and costs?

If not the case, I really hope MC will re-visit this option (pun intended).

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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby swz168 » 04 Feb 2013

Currently I'm not trading any options. But I'd be glad, if Multicharts will consider implementing an options module in the not so far future because I've always planned to experiment with options strategies. This would open a whole new strategy types for trading.

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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby hilbert » 04 Feb 2013

Andrew MultiCharts wrote:Hello TonyB,

At the moment we don't plan to optimize MultiCharts for trading options, however i will double check it with our development team and management and let you know if there any changes in this course.


Here is my 2 cents. Whole concept behind MC is systematic automated trading. I think even if MC team builds out an options module, retail traders should not even think of trading options in a systematic way using MC. Reason - Well, the competition in the market uses much more advanced software with much in-depth functionality that costs tens of thousands of dollars to trade options in a systematic way.

Retail can make money from options trading by being incredibly choosy - like taking 15 options trades in a year on special situations.

If anyone here is planning to trade options in a systematic fashion, this is what they will need. They will need to study more than 2 graduate level derivatives books and write a lot of code (hundreds of line) to model volatility surfaces. They will need to build their own simulation engines. Even storing vol data across strikes and time is a challenge. I frankly think retail have much higher probability of making money if they trade delta one stuff like futures, fx and stock. Options in a systematic way are best left for the pros. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby swz168 » 04 Feb 2013

hilbert wrote:Here is my 2 cents. Whole concept behind MC is systematic automated trading. I think even if MC team builds out an options module, retail traders should not even think of trading options in a systematic way using MC.
...
If anyone here is planning to trade options in a systematic fashion, this is what they will need. They will need to study more than 2 graduate level derivatives books and write a lot of code (hundreds of line) to model volatility surfaces. They will need to build their own simulation engines. Even storing vol data across strikes and time is a challenge. I frankly think retail have much higher probability of making money if they trade delta one stuff like futures, fx and stock. Options in a systematic way are best left for the pros. Just my 2 cents.


Well regarding your last paragraph, it is the same with automated strategies (FX, Futures, etc):
the automated strategies mustn't be complex to be succesfull. Actually, retail traders can be very successful trading simple option strategies .

For my part, I've been thinking for the beginning: MC should offer possibilities to design option strategies (combinations of different options). I've not been thinking about automation yet.

Regarding your first paragraph:
With the introduction of discretionary trading, MC has greatly widened their target group. So an options module for discretionary trader suits the "new concept" of Multicharts IMO. And it would indeed attract a lot of options traders.

So alltogether, it is a question, where does Multicharts want to go? How to divide their development resources? How many MC users want an option module? What other important non option related functions are missing? (For my part: with MC9.0, I would have all I need, so that's why I desire an options module for the future).
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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby hilbert » 04 Feb 2013

swz168 wrote:So alltogether, it is a question, where does Multicharts want to go? How to divide their development resources? How many MC users want an option module? What other important non option related functions are missing? (For my part: with MC9.0, I would have all I need, so that's why I desire an options module for the future).


Well, I am definitely not against it, if MC management decides to develop this functionality after finishing off version 9 or maybe version 10. My only wish is they sort out all the other important pending small small things in futures and stocks space before they embark on a massive new project.

Having said that, I still have couple of general reservations:
1) The ability of retail traders to make money using options.
2) The limitations imposed by existing easylanguage framework in developing a good options software.

Explaining the two points in slightly more detail below:
With external DLLs and using .NET it is possible to write any kind of strategy in futures/fx/stocks space in MC. This requires proficient IT knowledge. However, to be able to write good options strategy, along with proficient IT knowledge, very sophisticated knowledge of advanced financial modeling is required, which 99% of retail don't possess. This, in my humble opinion, is the key difference why trading deltaone (fx/fut/stk) stuff makes sense for retail, and why making money consistently using options trading is hard for retail.

Just my opinion and I could be wrong :)
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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby swz168 » 04 Feb 2013

hilbert wrote:Well, I am definitely not against it, if MC management decides to develop this functionality after finishing off version 9 or maybe version 10. My only wish is they sort out all the other important pending small small things in futures and stocks space before they embark on a massive new project.


Totally agree.

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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby swz168 » 04 Feb 2013

Regarding automated options trading:

Does any retail trader here has experience with automated options trading? Would be great to share some insights.

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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby TonyB » 04 Feb 2013

Interesting take hilbert. I personally didn't get MC for automated trading, but I admit that I do like the concept and would entertain the idea.

I've been trading options for 10+ years and find it rewarding. I swing trade, with transactions lasting several weeks, generally. I also do boring stuff like write covered calls, sell puts, especially in the IRA accounts.

I think it would be great if MC had something comparable to TS's OptionStation. I sense that quite few who have MC also have or even left TS. I'd venture to guess that there would be even more defections if MC could satiate the options piece...

So long as MC kept perfecting the platform's current offerings, I would love to see the inclusion of the options component. With the ability to trade equities already in MC, it would seem natural to include it here, as opposed to a separate offering - like MCFX.

MC, any feedback yet from mgt and development?
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Re: Options Module in MC

Postby hilbert » 04 Feb 2013

TonyB wrote:Interesting take hilbert. I personally didn't get MC for automated trading, but I admit that I do like the concept and would entertain the idea.

I've been trading options for 10+ years and find it rewarding. I swing trade, with transactions lasting several weeks, generally. I also do boring stuff like write covered calls, sell puts, especially in the IRA accounts.


Yes, for this kind of boring stuff and for transactions lasting weeks - retail can make money from options trading. I think you are an example since you have been doing this for 10 yrs. My point is that it is much harder for people like us to make money using retail options software if we are looking to do fast systematic options trading say intraday or even lasting for 2-4 days.
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Re: Options Module in MC  [SOLVED]

Postby Andrew MultiCharts » 27 Feb 2013

MultiCharts is specialized on trading based on data series (charts). Optimization of the product for option trading is not in the plans for this software.


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