Erratic behavior

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
johnyx2
Posts: 36
Joined: 18 Apr 2008

Erratic behavior

Postby johnyx2 » 21 May 2008

Hello there,

This is just to see if anybody else has seen things like this:

- After starting MC the bar spacing in the charts is not the same as when you shut it down
- After starting MC signals applied to the charts where not there anymore
- After starting MC trendlines show up vertically disregarding of bar spacing

These all happened to me once and I do not know what to do as I can not reproduce it and if it happens again anyway, how can I show it to technical support.

But if this happened to somebody else, then there must be something to investigate.

Thanks
Johny

johnyx2
Posts: 36
Joined: 18 Apr 2008

Postby johnyx2 » 21 May 2008

I found the cause of the signals disappearing from the chart.
The signal was not compiled at the time the charts where open.

In my opinion this is a bug/mistake.

Let's say you are modifying a signal that is in use in a chart that you are trading live. You just did not compile it because you are working on it or just forgot at the time you open the chart. You assume positions will be closed or open or whatever.
Now there is no signal..., no change in positions, maybe loses, maybe profits... you get the picture.

I think the chart should use the last compiled version of the signal anyway and not just open with out it, without warning.

Thanks

drwar
Posts: 218
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Postby drwar » 23 May 2008

[quote]I found the cause of the signals disappearing from the chart.
The signal was not compiled at the time the charts where open.

In my opinion this is a bug/mistake.

Let's say you are modifying a signal that is in use in a chart that you are trading live. You just did not compile it because you are working on it or just forgot at the time you open the chart. You assume positions will be closed or open or whatever.
Now there is no signal..., no change in positions, maybe loses, maybe profits... you get the picture.

I think the chart should use the last compiled version of the signal anyway and not just open with out it, without warning.

Thanks[/quote]

Yes thats a very good suggestion. Otherwise you may assume something is running that isn't. Regarding Trendlines I am seeing indicator drawn trendlines change their endpoints in the new version.
J~

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Marina Pashkova
Posts: 2758
Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 23 May 2008

I found the cause of the signals disappearing from the chart.
The signal was not compiled at the time the charts where open.

In my opinion this is a bug/mistake.

Let's say you are modifying a signal that is in use in a chart that you are trading live. You just did not compile it because you are working on it or just forgot at the time you open the chart. You assume positions will be closed or open or whatever.
Now there is no signal..., no change in positions, maybe loses, maybe profits... you get the picture.

I think the chart should use the last compiled version of the signal anyway and not just open with out it, without warning.

Thanks


Hi johnyx2,

Studies that are not compiled cannot and should not be applied to a chart. This is related to the very essence the way studies work. It can't be changed.

drwar
Posts: 218
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Postby drwar » 23 May 2008

Marina
I believe he is referring to the case where the study in its last compiled version is applied and running on the chart. Then the source is changed , The compiled version will keep running on the chart. The change is saved but not compiled. The version on the chart will still run. But if you exit MC and Restart MC it will see it as uncompiled and not run the last compiled version which is the version that was on the chart. To me this is a version check issue. What he was suggesting is that Nothing should try and replace the compiled version on the chart until their is a new version available.

Jerry

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Marina Pashkova
Posts: 2758
Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 23 May 2008

Hi Jerry,

This is exactly what I meant. If the study is changed, the changes are saved, but the study isn't compiled, it won't appear on the chart after the chart is re-opened. This is the way system works.Because when you change something in a study you don't create another copy of it. It's the same thing that's sitting on a chart and that gets uncompiled due to the changes.

To make sure the changes won't affect the study that is currecnly applied to a chart and that it doesn't disappear when the chart is re-opened, just save it as a different study.

johnyx2
Posts: 36
Joined: 18 Apr 2008

Postby johnyx2 » 23 May 2008

Marina,

drwar is exactly right. I am asking to leave on the chart a signal that has already been applied and compiled before. If there are some changes being made while the signal is on the chart, the signal should NOT dissapear from the chart.

Please, review the topic again, maybe I did not explain myself clear enough. This is a mistake in my opinion and should be changed. TS and version 8 and any other trading software does not do this.

If you already applied a signal to a chart, this signal should be there until an new compiled one appears.

Also drwar confirmed the problem with trendlines changing, please look into this too.

Thank you

drwar
Posts: 218
Joined: 31 Jul 2005

Postby drwar » 23 May 2008

You shouldn't have to save it under a different name Just because you made a minor change to it. As a matter of fact when you do this some times it screws up the file where it won't apply to the chart even tho its compiled. PLE sees it as compiled but the charting package for some reason does not. So this is not a solution. If you just hit the space bar by mistake the file is different and it will remove the study on restart. Overriding a compiled version with an uncompiled version is illogical to say the least. Which is more valuable a working compiled version or something in an unfinished state.

J~

johnyx2
Posts: 36
Joined: 18 Apr 2008

Postby johnyx2 » 23 May 2008

Hello Marina

Hi Jerry,

This is exactly what I meant. If the study is changed, the changes are saved, but the study isn't compiled, it won't appear on the chart after the chart is re-opened. This is the way system works.Because when you change something in a study you don't create another copy of it. It's the same thing that's sitting on a chart and that gets uncompiled due to the changes.


So, basically what you are saying is that it is not possible to keep the last compiled version on the chart, because the new uncompiled one can not be saved as a temporary study or something like that. Maybe MC should change the way it handles studies. Because having a study in a chart with input settings and trading it live, and having it disappear because one wants to make it better but did not finish yet, therefore did not compile it, is not fun.

To make sure the changes won't affect the study that is currecnly applied to a chart and that it doesn't disappear when the chart is re-opened, just save it as a different study.


I do not understand this. I do want the changes to affect the study when I am finished with them. Why would I save the changes on another study that is not applied to the chart and leave on the chart with the study without changes?

Hi johnyx2,

Studies that are not compiled cannot and should not be applied to a chart. This is related to the very essence the way studies work. It can't be changed.


Studies that are compiled should be applied to a chart and only should they disappear if any of these 2 conditions happen:
1 - I remove the study
2 - I have a new modify version of the study
I do not think that working on a study should be condition number 3. This is counterintuitive and I will not call it part of the essence of a study. By the very nature of what we are doing you would want us to make the study better without having to worry about having it disappear and loose all the inputs and/or $ if you are trading live on it, just because you are working on the study.

Marina,
We are all trying to make this product better for all of us. Please pay attention to this issue, it is important. I understand that this may mean MC may need to change the way it handles studies a bit (or a big bit), but it will be worth it

Thanks

User avatar
Marina Pashkova
Posts: 2758
Joined: 27 Jul 2007

Postby Marina Pashkova » 23 May 2008

Hi guys,

MC behavior discussed in this topic won't be changed in the nearest future.

Regards.

fs

Postby fs » 25 May 2008

Please, review the topic again, maybe I did not explain myself clear enough. This is a mistake in my opinion and should be changed. TS and version 8 and any other trading software does not do this.


I cannot speak for any other trading software as I do not own them all, but I can for TS since I have it and this is not true that TS does not do this. When you change a strategy in Easy Language already applied to a chart and do not compile/verify, the next time you open the workspace, you get a popup error message saying the strategy is not verified and it is turned off.

- Fanus

johnyx2
Posts: 36
Joined: 18 Apr 2008

Postby johnyx2 » 26 May 2008

I cannot speak for any other trading software as I do not own them all, but I can for TS since I have it and this is not true that TS does not do this. When you change a strategy in Easy Language already applied to a chart and do not compile/verify, the next time you open the workspace, you get a popup error message saying the strategy is not verified and it is turned off.

- Fanus


Correct.

When you change a strategy in Power Language already applied to a chart and do not compile, the next time you open the workspace in Multicharts:
- You do not get an error message
- You do not know that the strategy is not active on the chart
- The strategy is not listed in the study list anymore
- So you do not know what strategy was applied. Hope you remember.
- The current input settings are lost

When you change a strategy in Easy Language already applied to a chart and do not verify, the next time you open the workspace in TS:
- You get an error message
- You know the strategy is not active on the chart
- The strategy is still listed in the study list
- You know what strategy was applied
- The current input settings are not lost

So as you can see, it is true, Multicharts does not do what TS does.

fs

Postby fs » 26 May 2008

When you change a strategy in Power Language already applied to a chart and do not compile, the next time you open the workspace in Multicharts:
- You do not get an error message
- You do not know that the strategy is not active on the chart
- The strategy is not listed in the study list anymore
- So you do not know what strategy was applied. Hope you remember.
- The current input settings are lost

So as you can see, it is true, Multicharts does not do what TS does.


So what you really want is an error message telling you that the study is not active anymore and not that the applied study should stay active if you make changes without compiling as you indicated TS does above?

drwar is exactly right. I am asking to leave on the chart a signal that has already been applied and compiled before. If there are some changes being made while the signal is on the chart, the signal should NOT dissapear from the chart.


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