Chart arrangement lost in workspace after restart

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johnyx2
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Chart arrangement lost in workspace after restart

Postby johnyx2 » 21 Dec 2008

Hello there,

About once a week I start MC and all charts in the workspaces are either hidden / minimized or smaller than they were originally arranged, and on top of each other.

I am not sure if http://forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.ph ... workspaces describes the same, so just in case I attached a screenshot to show the problem.

Thanks
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bowlesj3
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auto hide task bar.

Postby bowlesj3 » 22 Dec 2008

Is your task bar set to auto-hide? I had a problem with MC doing something like this until I set the task bar to auto-hide. Maybe it will work.

johnyx2
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Postby johnyx2 » 24 Dec 2008

Thanks bowlesj3 for the suggestion.

Is this task bar setting in the 'Format Window' screen?
I only see 'Title bar' and 'Scroll Bar' with the auto-hide option. Is any of these?

Thanks

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Postby bowlesj3 » 24 Dec 2008

Hi johnyx2,

I guess we share the same first name.

I use Windows XP. You take your mouse pointer down to the task bar area of windows where there are no icons showing then once it is there you right click. A popup menu should appear and the very bottom Item is "Properties" and just above that should be "Lock Task Bar". So you click on properties. A popup should appear and the second item down is "Auto-Hide the task bar". Just make sure this is checked.
By the way, I did tests with the auto-hide toggling it on and off and restarting the machine and MC and it very consistently fixed the problems I was having . I have two screens and the tool bars were shifting to the right and MC was loosing its two screen setting too and showing only on the one screen if the task bar auto-hide was not checked.

Here are my full settings just in case they work together somehow to effect MC.


Lock task bar is checked.
Auto-Hide the task bar is checked.
Keep the task bar on top of other windows is checked.
Group similar tacsk bar buttons is not checked.
Show quick launch is checked.
Show the clock is checked.
Hide inactive icons is checked.

Another thing. I have a notebook machine I run MC on as well to do additional work off hours. I have an XP media version on that machine and the auto-hide task bar is checked. However this one is different. It is a single screen and the tool bars of MC keep slipping to the left when I have them floating at the top above the blue bar. They hold until I click a different chart window in MC. The trick to getting them to stay in the position I want is just to persistently keep clicking charts and putting the tool bars back where I want them. Eventually after maybe the 30th to 40th try they will stay where I want them. Every so often they slip again and the same procedure will get them to hold their position again. They will hold their position for months coming to the proper position on every MC restart.

On the desktop machine I can not get the toolbars to hold their position on the second monitor. Only on the first monitor.

Hope that works for you.
John.

johnyx2
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Postby johnyx2 » 24 Dec 2008

Hello bowlesj3,

Thanks for the explanation. I am not sure if you issue and mine are the same. As I understand you have problems with the MC window loosing its position within the screen and my issue is that charts are loosing their positions within the workspace.

In any event we will see what our friends at technical support may comment.

Thanks

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Postby bowlesj3 » 24 Dec 2008

I actually have that chart moving issue too but it isn't that bad. I have two workspaces. I have 9 charts on each workspace. Each time I open MC it moves the lower set of charts up about 1/16 to 1/8th of an inch. The charts do not change size. Eventually they will end up right at the top if I don't keep putting them back at the bottom of the workspace.

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TJ
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Postby TJ » 24 Dec 2008

I am having problem with charts staying in their saved places.

I believe it has something to do with the registry, but I do not know how to change that.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 24 Dec 2008

All these problems are well past user fixability. They seem to vary depending on the machine and maybe the operating system and are C programming problems. I was just lucky to discover the task bar trick mentioned above and even more lucky to have discovered that persistence was the key on my notebook. If I didn't discover the task bar trick I may have had to give up on MC.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Dec 2008

Another thing. I have a notebook machine I run MC on as well to do additional work off hours. I have an XP media version on that machine and the auto-hide task bar is checked. However this one is different. It is a single screen and the tool bars of MC keep slipping to the left when I have them floating at the top above the blue bar. They hold until I click a different chart window in MC. The trick to getting them to stay in the position I want is just to persistently keep clicking charts and putting the tool bars back where I want them. Eventually after maybe the 30th to 40th try they will stay where I want them. Every so often they slip again and the same procedure will get them to hold their position again. They will hold their position for months coming to the proper position on every MC restart.


regarding the above that I typed up earlier, it occured to me today that it may be that the tool bars need to be set up for a specific floating position for every chart on the workspace. Obviously I can't prove this since I just thought of it and my tool bars have been holding for a long time now but it is something worth trying if anyone is having this problem.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Dec 2008

This is a problem area where posts from users who are having no problems at all would be helpful if they indicated the hardward details and operating system details of their setup plus how their workspaces, charts and toolbars are setup and what MC version they are using.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 26 Dec 2008

Actually, I just noticed that the chart windows do shrink a tiny bit as well as moving up. Specifically they get shorter. It seems that all the changes described are little changes every time the workspace is opened.

johnyx2
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Postby johnyx2 » 26 Dec 2008

Thanks bowlesj3 for all the commentary and suggestions.

Looks like all of this is related. We will see what the developers have to say.

Happy Holidays

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Postby RobotMan » 27 Dec 2008

Yes, I notice this problem all the time. It is a minor annoyance.

One of the things that adds to the annoyance is that "Window/Arrange Vertically", and, "Window/Arrange Horizontally" in MC does not allow you control over the order of which window goes where as in other programs and even in the PLE.

For example: in the PLE with several windows open, you merely click on the title bar in the order you want the windows to be arranged and then click "Window/Arrange Vertically" and they arrange themselves in the order you want. Not so in MC - You must drag and resize manually to get the windows where you want them.

-- "Window/Arrange All" seems to work fine. --

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Postby bowlesj3 » 27 Dec 2008

They must be difficult to fix because they are problems that show up immediately during the demo period before people have paid their money. Lucky for them (and I actually), I found my solutions to the more serious of these problems during the first month.

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Postby TJ » 27 Dec 2008

but in version 2, the arrange window worked OK, but not now. That's why this is so upsetting.

johnyx2
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Postby johnyx2 » 27 Dec 2008

My particular problem is the way I arrange the chart. Please see attachment.
I know one can just choose an "Arrange ... windows" menu and have them all visible. But if you are used to some arrangement like the one in the jpg, that will not do.

Also, trading is stressful enough to be worried about what you are going to see we you start MC, like in my case:
- the charts arrangement
- trendlines getting vertical
- last or the one before the last daily bar not showing. Need to reload data daily
- empty periods in realtime not plotting. Need to reload data often during the day
- slow chart plotting
And a host of other basic charting features and concepts that should be there and implemented.

I did not use MC for most of the year and I came back to it to see the new MC 5. I do not know about the new features for backtesting and all, that I am sure are many and very useful. But basic charting for me is not up to the task.
The last thing I want to worry about when I put money on the line is if the software will be there to show me what is going on as soon as possible.

In my opinion (or maybe just because the way I use it), MC is not up to real time trading.
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RobotMan
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Postby RobotMan » 27 Dec 2008

/rant on

I hear you Johnyx2. I have a list of 10 glaring problems that are GUI/interface related. I have a list of several suggestions that would make the interface better. But I don't mention them because I never receive any acknowledgment for my previous suggestions that deal directly with TSS software program development. This "window arrangement" thing is only one of them.
It seems that "bugs" in portfolio testing and data handling take precedence over "minor inconveniences" like TLs that lose their anchor points (or never had any viable ones to begin with - #7 on my bagaboo list.) that render "snap mode" useless and require a total workspace rebuild to get them back.
I don't back test. I don't handle huge amounts of data. I am not a theoretician playing "what-if" games or trying to "auto-trade" in realtime using free, bogus data from IB. I am just a lowly intraday discretionary trader - why should I be taken seriously by TSSupport?

/rant off - go back to real life...
Last edited by RobotMan on 29 Dec 2008, edited 1 time in total.

johnyx2
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Postby johnyx2 » 27 Dec 2008

RobotMan, I see we share some of the pain here.

I trade like you, a few TL's, trade around them, no backtesting.

I stated this week to look at AB, I did not look before, because I know EasyLanguage, but I am not familiar with AFL (AB's language I think).
That was the main reason I bought MC. But I still need something to switch from TS2000i. At this point I am willing to invest the time in AFL learning curve if charting is decent enough.

Any comments about this or other software that will fit this profile?

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RobotMan
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Postby RobotMan » 27 Dec 2008

There is a lot of software for trading out there. It depends if you are just learning or are just trading as to what will be appealing.
Making money is more important to me than trying new software out.
Yet, I want the best, but am willing to be satisfied with the top 90%. AB, Neoticker, Ensign, SC, etc might all be fine. Just pick one and be the best you can with it.

I like Multicharts with eSignal.
It is much MUCH better than TS 2000i.
I would rather trade than write programs now.
I use Multicharts to play with simple ideas because I can program in EL and the charting is very good - it is a very solid program now.

I use NT / ZenFire to trade with on a separate computer.
NT User Interface / drawing tools suck compared to MultiCharts.
I can trade right off the Charts - it is awsesome.
It also has a DOM ladder that you can trade from.
It has Time and Sales.
It has Automatic Trade Management.
I can manually move my stops in the blink of an eye.
NinjaScript uses C#, which I have no desire to learn.
I pay someone else to program NinjaScript indicators.


Life is good.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 27 Dec 2008

I have less complaints because I used trend lines for 6.5 years them dumped them completely. I use the bands and the RSI. That is it. No need to spend any time drawing lines or guessing where they should be anchored. MC 2.1.999.999 is perfect for me except I agree that the daily bars can be a problem (for IB they reload the next day from a consolidated data feed but during the day the current daily bar is built from the same data as the 1 minute bar so you loose it after trading hours until the consolidation takes place and comes down the next morning). I tried MC 3.1 beta and it gave me a lot of pain so I dumped it and went back to MC 2.1.999.999. I am afraid to try any upgrades but may some day. I sent MC 3.1 dumps but have no word of a fix and I know the answer (there is no fix) The only significant problem I have with My MC is it aborts maybe once a day normally but It is running again in 30 seconds and I am fine. I have many copies of MC 2.1.999.999 in my safety deposit box (hold on to it for dear life).

I think TS-Support wants to get MC to dupicate TS features (and its offshoots) then once that is done they will focus on the remaining complaints. I believe that eventually they will get them cleared up. How long? No way to know. They probably don't know themselves. Having been a programmer I know that doing estimates is next to impossible (even for fairly small projects too since you think out what has to be done in the code as you come to it) The reality is the programmer does not know how much code there will be in total until he is near the end. Look how many times Windows has been delayed and bug filled and they are rich too! What I am saying is MS probably buys the best programmers on the planet yet they have many delays in their operating systems each time.

I learned to be very agressive as a programmer. You just hammer out the code as fast as your mind can do it and come back and fix it later when you are fresh. It is way better than sitting back and planning and planning. So much faster. So much better. I think the TS-Support group are like this. In the end they will be farther ahead. IT is like the "Stub". You just hammer something out (the stub) to keep up the momentum on the stuff you have clear in your mind on at the moment. Later you come back and finish the stub. It is like a giant jig saw puzzle. You finish the easy stuff first and it makes those remaining pieces easier to place since you have the big picture before you attempt them.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 27 Dec 2008, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby TJ » 27 Dec 2008

/rant on
..."minor inconveniences" like TLs that lose their anchor points...
/rant off - go back to real life...


trendline basics (manual drawing objects):

there are layers of objects on the chart...

the root of all is the price bar (the symbol).

all the other objects are either on top of the price bar, or underneath it.

right click on the chart, select Visual Order... and you can see the hierarchy of orders on the chart.

if you draw a trendline on the chart... it has to anchor somewhere -- the obvious place is to anchor on the top most layer.

however if your top most layer is NOT scaled base on the symbol scale... your trendline will NOT move with the price bar when the chart is rescaled.

Solution:
move your symbol to the top most layer.
(If you have paintbar, of course you have to let the paint bar on the top.)

p.s. also right click on the price scale (the Y-axis). Make sure the check mark is on your symbol, not one of the indicators.


Your trendlines should scale with your price bar from now on.

;-)

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RobotMan
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Postby RobotMan » 27 Dec 2008

Hi TJ,

Yes, I have done that. My experience has been that MC loses track of where you set a default property in a Drawing Object.

ie: Let's say you always want your TL drawn from close to close and so you set that as the default TL property. You have a few channels and MAs on your chart and sometime later (after closing and opening MC maybe?) you go to put a TL on the chart and it just disappears. You try it several times and they all disappear. You then right click and choose "format drawings" and there they are all listed. You click on one and sure enough, the start value and end value are way out of bounds of any indicator or price on the chart. Weird.

Here's another one. chose "View/Snap Mode" and try attaching a TL. All of a sudden it attaches to a moving average or a channel line. You go into the TL properties and look at "calculation type/fixed point" and select the pull down menu and open, high, low, close are not even offered even though the symbol name is at the top of the "visual order".

There is no way to get a TL attached to price without rebuilding the workspace from scratch. I have driven MC crazy because I have set a default TL value in properties. Once rebuilt things work fine and it is only a matter of time until it goes crazy again. Thank goodness for templates.

Jimmy Snowden actually saves his workspaces by date as a backup for when they get corrupted. He just reloads an old good one and renames it.

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Postby TJ » 27 Dec 2008

I have forgotten to mention... the last object on the list MUST also be Scaled to Same as Symbol.

I don't know, maybe the TL is anchored to the last layer too?


Most people forgotten to check the Y-axis. Somehow they must work together.



I draw a lot of lines on my charts... I have experienced all the trials and tribulations. Touch wood, so far I seemed to have the problem managed.

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Postby Nick » 06 Jan 2009

In several places MC operates against objects on layer 1 where as it should operate against the 'ticked' layer. (right click on the X axis to see which layer is ticked). TJ suggests a way round this but that defeats the purpose of orderable layers somewhat!

As for remembering workspace layouts correctly is this a new issue in V5.0? There is a different issue in earlier versions.


I too have a list of infuriating bugs (that seems similar to you guys) that are really fundamental. It seems that the 'precision charting' statement has gone from the website guess thats easier than fixing all these little issues :D (Only joking)

Seriously these sorts of display and UI issues are infuriating as you bang your head against them day in day out as you work your charts.

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Marina Pashkova
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Re: Chart arrangement lost in workspace after restart

Postby Marina Pashkova » 15 Jan 2009

Hello there,

About once a week I start MC and all charts in the workspaces are either hidden / minimized or smaller than they were originally arranged, and on top of each other.

I am not sure if http://forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.ph ... workspaces describes the same, so just in case I attached a screenshot to show the problem.

Thanks


Hi johnyx2,

What version of MC are you using? Could you please describe exactly what we will need to do to reproduce this bug? (are all the windows attached, detached, does the problem occur every time you open the saved workspaces etc. We would need as many details as possible).

Thank you.


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