MC6 Beta 1 Feedback

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
tcat
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MC6 Beta 1 Feedback

Postby tcat » 15 Dec 2009

Congratulations for MC6 beta 1 to MC team!

I just installed the first beta (build 3081) and have already a few comments:

- Market replay: the play/pause button should be associated with the "space bar" button on the keyboard, so as to be able to pause the replay as needed for analysis
- Suspected defect: Is it normal that moving from bar chart to renko chart modifies the data (instruments) parameters? My chart systematically goes from a year of history to 2 days when doing the switch.
- Where is the documentation for the new features? I am confused by this global/local mode in the market replay menu.
- What will the pricing model be for the upgrade?
- Suspected defect: The date/calendar menu in the market replay toolbar behaves inadequately. Unable to properly set the replay for a historical date.

Keep up the good work...and please fix the bug.
Thierry
Last edited by tcat on 20 Dec 2009, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby tcat » 15 Dec 2009

One last thing: could it be possible to include the link to view "strategy performance report" when right clicking on the chart?. This would be very convenient.

:wink:

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Postby bowlesj3 » 20 Dec 2009

(there is a trick to this, see the bottom)

Maybe this is my problem. I just installed MC6.0. I was trying to float the tool bars such that they would stay in the upper blue area of multicharts which is used to grab and move programs (not sure of the name for it) . This is a free area that most traders will never use since they want as much chart space as they can get and it is a good place to put these tool bars . In MC 2.1.999.999 I can get them to stay up there if they are in the left monitor. If there is just a tiny bit of the left side of the tool bar showing in the left monitor it will hold its position (so I have one of them where most of the tool bar is actually in the right monitor). However in MC 6.0 beta1 they keep dropping down into the chart area. In MC2.1.999.999 even with these tool bars up in that area I have trouble reading the RSI on the 6 charts on my left 20" monitor (3 charts on the top row and 3 charts on the bottom row). This tool bar problem in MC6.0 makes it even worse. I already have the status bar hidden in MC2.1.999.999 to make more room for charts to help see this RSI. It looks like I need to get another 28 inch monitor (not a bad idea anyway). This feature of MC2.1.999.999 is well worth keeping. If there is a trick to getting it to work hopefully someone can post it here.

The trick is to pull MC down so there is space at the top of the monitor/screen, pull the tool bar in from the far right over top of MC and get it positioned properly then drag MC back up as high as it will go on the monitor. It is actually good because the tool bar can hold its position on the right monitor without having to have any of it in the left monitor. Good job TSS. Thanks. However having said that maybe there could be a check box that the user can check off that tells MC not to pull any tool bars in to the locked positions no matter where they are (let me look for that).

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Postby bowlesj3 » 20 Dec 2009

Regarding the replay, great stuff TSS. I like it. You guys (ladies and gents) amaze me. As always there is room for improvement. What can I say, improvement is a bottomless pit isn’t it. However for first release of this replay it is a really great job. It sure is better than what I had programmed with the sendkey to try and control the charts. For my useage at least it is almost 100% perfect except for one thing (and maybe a second thing could make it even better but that might be really hard to program and I don’t really expect the second idea would be done by the end of this MC6.0 final release if ever).

In order to explain the problem I have to document exactly how I am going to be using it in step by step detailed instructions (something for your manual maybe). It may actually be a bug unless I am doing something wrong. (Another reason I have to document it).

MY USAGE:
We are of course starting here in real time mode.

Make sure Tracking is set to both Time and Price so charts can be lined up.

Double click the right scale on all charts so all price bars show on all charts as the replay moves.

Click any chart to position the replay start general area (all charts line up). You may have to fine-tune that with another click on a lower resolution chart such as 1-minute bars.

Click on your lowest resolution chart (in my case 10 second bars).
NOTE: “As is (10 Seconds)” should appear in the Data Playback tool bar.

Set speed to “1 update every 10 seconds” since we want real speed for 10-second bars. In some cases I will be running at “1 update every 1 second” (at least that is what I figure I will be doing since time is precious and I want to practice a whole trading day every night).

Click on “Jump” on the tool bar.

Click on the 10-second bars exactly where you want the replay to start.

To ensure that the “As is (10 Seconds)” setting is retained do not click “Global Mode”.

Make sure that “As is (10 Seconds)” is still highlighted then Click Play on the tool bar to start the replay and it will play properly moving ahead one 10 second bar at the time interval you selected.

Of note, for the day trader at least, it has occured to me that it may be best to work backwards during the completed trading day to practice your triggering technique. This eliminates the need to click the "go to realtime" button between each new trade since the historic data is there to determine the next jump button location for the next trade to practice. On the other hand for a student discretionary trader who is testing themselves to decide if they want to trade full time, they may want to work forward using the global mode feature to hide all future bars on all charts. Here is where the built in database idea comes in. They or an instructor can mark areas to trade and they can jump forward using the database (from a few days prior) to hide the future and test their decisions. I have found that trigger practice does not need this extent of hiding the future because it is hard to remember a lower wave level trigger pattern (thus going backwards is fine).

HERE IS THE PROBLEM with GLOBAL MODE:
When I do not click “Global Mode” the replay correctly executes the “As is (10 Seconds)”. However, if I do click “Global Mode” the replay incorrectly switches to “As is (1 minute)” and I can not get it back to “As Is (10 Seconds)” which is what I will always want. I think I can safely say that all discretionary traders will be watching their lowest resolution chart to make their trigger decision. In my case I will be watching the 10 second bars to arm an auto trigger that gets tripped when sets of 2 or 3 bars show a specific relationship (for example the most recent high is equal to the previous high). If I am behind I may press a button for immediate entry. However that is what this feature is for. It is to be used so I can get more efficient and not fall behind. It will also help with making me less likely to hesitate (a big problem with many discretionary traders). If a trader falls behind it increases the chances that they will hesitate too.

Another use for the replay is to teach. Trading teachers can get the students to test themselves before they decide on this career. I could see that the calendar and time could be useful here. I could have lessons prepared with dates and times for example trades and get them to practice it by jumping directly to the date and time. Maybe in the future a database could be set up for that and teachers could create database entries. For now I would set up my own database and just copy the date and time manually. However I just tried the calendar and Tcat is correct. It is not working. All it really needs to do is position charts roughly so the tracking can be used to zero on the place to start the replay from (as I described above). However if a database is tied in it would be better to be accurate (I created another post below with an idea in this regard).

Another thing I noticed it is takes a fair while to get the play button back when I click the global mode. If MC is busy getting ready maybe a message should be given so the user knows to just wait (maybe an estimate of wait time could be given somehow). I am not surprised MC gets busy when the global botton is pressed. It has to do a chart line up of some sort. Here is an idea to speed that up. In my case the 1 minute bars and 10 second bars are all that really need a line up. They are on the right side monitor (next to the execution software) and all other charts are on the left. Lowest resolution on the right next to execution is probably pretty standard for most traders. Maybe the number of charts to line up globably could be reduced by the trader highlighting a chart for global lineup and clicking an "add Chart" button. I would highlight and add no more than 2 of my 9 charts. Others maybe require less. I am assuming the less charts needing a lineup the less delay before the play button comes back.

Here is the other idea that might be really hard to program.
Maybe this can be simulated if I set up a tick chart and if the above fix is put in place too. The idea is to have the actual ticks come in to control the replay so I can see the closing price on the 10 second bars moving as the bar builds (in other words I see exactly what I see during the trading day). The work around I will try for simulating this is to set up a tick chart of maybe 5 or 10 ticks and have that as the lowest resolution chart (off in the corner some where) but I will watch the 10 second chart to practice discretionary triggering of the trade. However for this to work the above problem needs to be fixed.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 21 Dec 2009, edited 21 times in total.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 20 Dec 2009

Regarding custom tool bars what you have done is very helpful. It makes getting the right button click faster (less stuff to look for). That was part of what I had in mind for custom tool bars.

However a more elaborate version I had in mind was to be able to define a tool’s parameters and store that tool preset on a custom tool bar. I think I had explained that in detail in a prior post. I think TS4.0 could do this if I remember correctly. In TS4.0 I think you could change the order of the buttons on the tool bar (drag them maybe).

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Postby bowlesj3 » 20 Dec 2009

I think it is great that we can adjust the replay speed on the fly with the slider bar. That is better than MicroFocus Cobol's 1 through 9 and 0. However I noticed in the replay that the "1 update every 2 secs, 3seconds and 4seconds" is missing. It jumps directly from 1 update every 1 second to one update every 5 seconds yet there are snap positions for these other speeds. It appears like a fairly standard "programmer got distracted by a phone call bug" and being under pressure never had a chance go back to finish the item.

An enhancement here could be to have a "+" button on the right of the slighter to do a single increase and a "-" button on the left of the slider to do a singe decrease.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 20 Dec 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 20 Dec 2009

Regarding the database idea for the replay above (for traders or for teachers), it would be useful to have a "Save to Data Base" button. After it is pressed the cursor would be positioned and the left mouse botton clicked resulting in a capture of the date and time details. The captured data would be used to create a new database entry (maybe optional notes could be typed in). Later the database could be used (maybe searched) to get the data to dump it into the calendar for an approximate chart positioning. At that point the jump button would be used for a more accurate last minute final decision on exact replay starting point).

For teachers if they could export that database to a file and the students could pick it up by import across a computer network, thumb drive or whatever. I have had two people ask me to teach them. I could email trades to practice this way or just very quickly capture interesting trading locations during the trading day and have that as my reference. This idea is much like what I am doing now by putting an arrow on the chart and picking up the date, time and bar info and dumping it into my database program. I actually have the database program grab the date and time and RSI value from a set of GVs updated using the arrow location info and I click on the text box and it goes into the clipboard and I cut and paste it with a small note for later reference to create a picture note outside trading hours. It is a time saver.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 21 Dec 2009

I organized a table describing replay usage for both setup practice and trigger practice. It is in the attached word document. It should make the use of this replay function a lot clearer, help other traders generate ideas as they think about it and help TSS make their adjustments before the final MC6.0 release.

Please note that the database I mention in the table is just an idea I am submitting which would be very useful I think (it is pretty obvious actually).
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ReplayUsage.doc
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brodnicki steven
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Postby brodnicki steven » 21 Dec 2009

Can you use the replay while collecting RT data, or only in off line mode?

Dug
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Postby Dug » 21 Dec 2009

Hi I downloaded MC6, and tried a simple test on it.
............
condition3 = high>high[2];
condition4= high>high[1];
if condition3 and condition4 then begin
//buy this bar on close;
buy next bar at open;
end;

//////////////
condition1 = low<low[2];
condition2= low<low[1];
if condition1 and condition2 then begin
//sellshort this bar on close;
sellshort next bar at open;
end;

When using the "at open" entry for both the buy and the sell, then the chart will place the entry arrows at the high, and the lows for the day, and not on the close. (from memory this worked fine in mc5)

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Postby Kingjelly » 21 Dec 2009

Anyone else have a problem with Renko charts not going back far enough in history?

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Postby bowlesj3 » 21 Dec 2009

Hi Steven, regarding

Can you use the replay while collecting RT data, or only in off line mode?

I seem to remember TJ pointing out a way to display charts on symbol "A" while having the quote manager collect data on symbols "B", "C" etc. I don't do this but it suggests that maybe it is possible and worth a try. LOL, I wish I had a trading system that allowed me time to do this. I don't have the patience to trade that large a wave.

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Postby brodnicki steven » 22 Dec 2009

Hi Steven, regarding

Can you use the replay while collecting RT data, or only in off line mode?

I seem to remember TJ pointing out a way to display charts on symbol "A" while having the quote manager collect data on symbols "B", "C" etc. I don't do this but it suggests that maybe it is possible and worth a try. LOL, I wish I had a trading system that allowed me time to do this. I don't have the patience to trade that large a wave.


** The reason that I asked if it could be done RT, is that I collect data 24x5, Fut and Forex, only leaving weekends for playback mode. I guess I need a second license.

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Replay Mode

Postby miltonc4 » 22 Dec 2009

Hi Support
Chart Replay
In addition, there needs to be a simple “Manual operation” to the replay, for example:
Open replay mode in MCharts
Mouse to select where to the start replay
Right arrow to go forward to/show next bar/s
Left arrow to go back to/show next bar/s
Space bar to go forward to/show next bar as an option as well
Nothing moves/replays until either space bar or arrows are selected by the user
Then a simple way to “Go to” current last bar in chart, maybe ESC Key button
Then a simple way to “Exit Replay Mode”
This simple manual mode should be separate and in addition to all the fancy automated replay function proposed, for those of us who want KISS with full user control (non automated)
Thanks
Milton

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Strategy Performance Window (SPW)

Postby miltonc4 » 23 Dec 2009

Hi Support
Strategy Performance Window (SPW)
Whenever a trade is highlighted in (SPW) ,the corresponding signal is brought to the current chart page, which is good for identification, but two improvements would help:-
Can the signal appear in the centre of the chart, rather than as now in the left side, and partly off the screen hidden to left, requiring the user to manually scroll to left each time a signal is studied. Ideally it should appear in middle of chart where the data bars before and after the signal can be viewed,without having to manually do it.
Another help would be for the reverse to apply, meaning that if a signal in chart is highlighted, then the corresponding trade in Strategy Performance Window is also highlighted
Bothe these suggestions will help when viewing one chart on one screen and the (SPW) on another screen.
Also now that the playback is available would be good to see (SPW) as when in this mode as the replay plays out thru the entry and exit signal as well.
Thanks
Milton

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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 Dec 2009

Here are some ideas for enhancement of the Replay global button. They are in the attached word docment.

Thanks so much for this replay feature. It is already getting some talk on the omega-list.

John.
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bowlesj3
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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 Dec 2009

Right arrow to go forward to/show next bar/s
Left arrow to go back to/show next bar/s
Space bar to go forward to/show next bar as an option as well
Nothing moves/replays until either space bar or arrows are selected by the user
Then a simple way to “Go to” current last bar in chart, maybe ESC Key button
Then a simple way to “Exit Replay Mode”
This simple manual mode should be separate and in addition to all the fancy automated replay function proposed, for those of us who want KISS with full user control (non automated)


Regarding Miltonc4's idea, I agree. A method to pause then step 1 bar at a time would be handy (forward or back). I think it should simply kick in when the pause is in effect. Actually I just remembered you have step forward and backward buttons now but I have not tried them while in pause mode. When pause is off it could go back to normal continuous play as you have designed since that would be used to put the trader under pressure during practice/testing. At any time the auto play speed should be changeable which I think it can do now if I remember correctly. I need to spend more time with it hopefully tonight.

I guess assigning short cut keys is something you have to be very careful about so you get it right the first time. Switching them too much after the fact could cause a lot of problems I would think.

It is good though as it is. Really good! As far as custom hiding of charts I just have to try not to look at the 1 minute bars. I guess I could move it to the other screen. Not that hard to do actually. Actually it is much easier to stretch the 10 second bar chart out to cover the 1 minute bar chart. Heck, take it right out over all the other charts for that matter rather than turn off the other monitor.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 23 Dec 2009, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 Dec 2009

Regarding the replay, I am thinking the "As is" drop down name is a bit confusing. I am curious where that name came from. It is a hard one isn't it.

If you spell it right out it is
"the chart that the speed is based off of" - "Chart Speed Base"
or
"the chart that is effected by the speed setting" - "Speed Effected Chart"
or
"the chart that is controlled by the speed setting" - "Speed Control Chart"

It is hard to condense that into a simple name that makes sense. Of all of the above "Speed Control Chart" might make the most sense. If so maybe a heading with SCC and a mouse over control tip of "Speed Control Chart - The chart that is controlled by the speed setting"

Just some thoughts to consider.

John.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 Dec 2009

As a discretionary trader there is a lot I don’t use in MC6.0 but there are the nice things I have noticed about MC 6.0 over MC 2.1.999.999

Code: Select all

**Replay of course is great.

**It seems to run faster than MC 2.1.999.999 (a major one)

**It does not bomb out so far which is way better than MS 3.0 beta.
(it needs 2 weeks to compare to MC 2.1.999.999 yet)
(startup refill seems to need some work but it is a one time a day thing, not so bad)

**It easily handles my difficult study (does not flash redraws during the day).

**Recalculate command processing seems faster.

**Custom tool bars are nice. No need to look through stuff I do not use.

**Shortcuts are nicer (my macro sends work better and faster to control snap, save bmps, bar squeeze, etc).

**Being able to eliminate plot values from the right scale. Great.

**The bug in the RSI scale seems to be fixed.

**Bar Count down is kind of nice. I have one in my database but this is handy.


I will add them here as I find them.

Thanks the great work,
John.

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Postby TJ » 23 Dec 2009

As a discretionary trader there is a lot I don’t use in MC6.0 but there are the nice things I have noticed about MC 6.0 over MC 2.1.999.999

Code: Select all

...

**It seems to run faster than MC 2.1.999.999 (a major one)

...





There was a re-write/re-architecture of codes... I believe it was in 2007,
which made lots of the processing more efficient.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 23 Dec 2009

That makes sense TJ.

The rewrite must have been in MC3 + with a rough start and was eventually fixed because MC3.0 beta1 was a nightmare for me (like going down 30 times per day).

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Refinements on a prior Global Mode idea.

Postby bowlesj3 » 24 Dec 2009

Please note that the template design idea (attached below) came about because clicking the global button created a fair bit of “Chart Line UP” time delay before the replay would start (the buttons were locked out during this time and I was not sure what was happening during this time – user confusion basically). Once I realized what was likely going on (specifically a chart line up) I got the idea to have a custom button so that all charts did not have to be lined up but rather only the charts that the trader wanted would be lined up (this might save some user wait time). For example maybe only the 10 second bars and the 1 minute bars needed to be replayed (lined up) rather than all of them. In programming the following type of design database can be used to help think out (design) a function like this replay function (or at least it is a technique I have used in the past). Below the templates contain the first set of thoughts related to having a custom button to limit the number of charts that are lined up.

Please Don’t get me wrong. The existing replay is great. I am amazed at what TSS has come up with built around my idea of having a cursor jump point for easy start of the replay. I could not have come up with this template idea without something already great to work with. In other words buttons that make a lot of sense had to be in place before I could get this design template idea. The proper Building blocks had to be in place first so to speak.

Also note that I included a few controls such as the play/pause button and the “go to real-time” button only to include some comments or thoughts regarding that button (or even a question). I wanted a template to come back to.

Also note that maybe this format would be a good base for user documentation in that it will explain the relationship edits.

I have zipped the file so I can add updates later if I happen to think of them.

Back to trading. Tau Tau for now.
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Postby bowlesj3 » 24 Dec 2009

I knew there was something I missed. I made a slight revision to the attached file above. I can't seem to remove it and replace it so here is the revision.

The revision involves the jump button. Here is the new part.

Relationship edits relative to other controls on the tool bar.
Once the Jump button is depressed only, if the user clicked a chart other than one of the charts listed in the SCC drop down list they would get an error. They do not have to limit it to the selected SCC chart (just one of the charts in that list).

Added comment. This is probably going to be required because the line up program is going to need a chart involved in the line-up process (I am assuming at least).
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Postby bowlesj3 » 24 Dec 2009

Earlier in a post I had mentioned that the replay would also be useful for debugging studies. I was correct. I have (within an hour of my first serious use of the replay) found two design flaws in my secondary program I use for trading which picks up all sorts of GV info from MC. With global mode on it is working just as if it was a real trading day (except I have to change a param here and there because the current time is way out of wack with the time in the bars - I was able to put in debugging print statements and find out what I had to change in this regard). It is still useful with global mode off.

I will say it again. Amazing work TSS. When you fix that one problem with the global mode forcing it to 1 minute bars (rather than leaving it at 10 second bars or whatever lower resolution the other traders are using) then this feature is basically perfect (for my use at least). I my case I will probably never use the calendar so I personally can ignore the problems there. I think traders are more likely to use the database idea than the calendar but I am sure someone will find a use for it even if the database is eventually there.

From my perspective now (regarding considering new features to add to the replay) I am thinking that (adding the database versus adding the custom button) is a bit of a tossup priority wise. Tough call.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Dec 2009

Actually adding a toggle button on the replay that tricks the currentdate, currenttime and currenttime_s into returning the realtive values they would have had during the replay's last bar on the chart would be needed for most studies that use them to actually work. If not toggled to be true then the true date and time will be way higher and the studies that use this info just don't work as they should. My guess is this toggle should be defaulted to on.

I will probably write a wrapper for these and send a GV as a signal to switch their output.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 25 Dec 2009, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 25 Dec 2009

I was trying to float the tool bars


To move any toolbar outside the main MC window, you need press and hold Ctrl before you start moving it. Toolbar locations are recorded and they will appear in the same location next time you start MultiCharts.

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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 25 Dec 2009

HERE IS THE PROBLEM with GLOBAL MODE:
When I do not click “Global Mode” the replay correctly executes the “As is (10 Seconds)”. However, if I do click “Global Mode” the replay incorrectly switches to “As is (1 minute)” and I can not get it back to “As Is (10 Seconds)” which is what I will always want.


The Global Mode was designed for a simultaneous and synchronized data replay on all open charts and scanner windows within the running instance of MultiCharts.

In Global Mode, there are only two types of playback: “Minute by Minute” and “Day by Day”. The reason for this is that many open charts may have different resolutions, and it’s not clear for the program which one should be used as the Playback Resolution.

The same logic applies to Playback Resolution in the scanner, and charts with several data series.

As soon as the Global Mode button is pressed, JumpToBar is executed on all charts, specifying the same time of day, and taking into account Time Zone differences.

The 10 second resolution will run fine on one chart only, as long as you don’t click the Global Mode button. As soon as you do, it will jump to “Minute by Minute” and “Day by Day”. As a side note, it possible to specify more than one minute by going to the StepForward or StepBackward menus and choosing “10 Minutes Forward” or “10 Minutes Backward”

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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 25 Dec 2009

Can you use the replay while collecting RT data, or only in off line mode?


You can use Playback and Collect Data simultaneously. The Collect Data feature is not tied to Playback in any way. As a side note, there is a limitation that if a chart has Playback turned on, you cannot enable Autotrading on that chart.

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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 25 Dec 2009

Anyone else have a problem with Renko charts not going back far enough in history?


You can specify any request for a Renko chart, but the chart will only display 1,000,000 Renko boxes of historical data at maximum. As real-time data arrives, more boxes will be added.

The Renko chart is constructed only based on ticks. So, if there are no ticks in the database, then the amount of historical data will be limited by the number of historical ticks delivered by the data feed.

Also, for non-regular chart types, there is no backfilling, so it takes some time to construct a data series.

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Postby arnie » 25 Dec 2009

I was forced to reinstall my PC (I bought a new graphic card that, apparently, my motherboard didn't approved, making windows, sound card, internet connection going nuts. Don't you hate when you need to buy a complete new system because the old one don't work with the latest version of some type of hardware and you cannot find previous versions anywhere?), and I noticed one thing.

Every night my backup software saves the Database and the StudyServer folders into a usb flash drive.
Today, after installing MC 6 I copy/paste the folders and went to PLE to compile the studies and see if everything was OK.

First, why aren't all the folders that we created being saved?
It's quite painful for people that have hundreds of indicators and all of them separated by folders to have to create all again and separate all indicators/functions/studies, again, into each of them.
The fact that there's no cut/paste option, it's even more painful to select the indicators that are on the top of the list and drag them onto the bottom, where the created folders are.

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Postby arnie » 25 Dec 2009

Another thing that would be nice, would be the possibility to save the toolbar customization into a file that we also could save/backup.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Dec 2009

Hi Andrew,
Regarding

The 10 second resolution will run fine on one chart only, as long as you don’t click the Global Mode button. As soon as you do, it will jump to “Minute by Minute” and “Day by Day”.


As I basically said before, The global mode (if it forces the "Speed Control Chart" to a higher resolution than the lowest resolution chart) it esentially renders trigger practice impossible (probably for most and more likely all discretionary day traders at least) since they create the lowest resolution chart just for that purpose (to get a finer signal in the waves to trigger a good entry price). It might be okay for EOD traders however if their lowest resolution chart is in fact the 1-minute bars but I am going to go back to day traders who are almost always going to have a chart below the 1 minute bars as their lowest resolution chart . During the reality of the trading day (which obviously is what replay is for) the 10 second bars do not shoot out in sets of 6 bars. At best (for trigger practice) the fastest a discretionary trader is going to want to see the 10 second bars move would be 1 bar a second (and even that is 10 times faster than reality to give their skills a good work out). Shooting them out in sets of 6 is a long ways away from reality. I was finding that I wanted to slow it down to one 10-second bar every 5 seconds rather than one 10-second bar every second. Some traders will be using 5 second bars or maybe even tick charts. The same principle will apply here.

The idea of having the "Speed Control Chart" set to a higher resolution than the lowest resolution chart of the replay is probably okay for setup practice (maybe even a great idea if you can do it and it appears that you already have done it). Essentially the trader is analysing the larger picture and trying to project where prices may end up both for entry and for exit. In that case they are not yet trying to analyse the lower levels of waves to try and get a good entry price (triggering might be defined as trying to get a good price without missing the trade). If it is easier (from a programming perspective) to only have one "Speed Control Chart" it might be better to always have it the lowest resolution chart and simply provide much higher speed capability for setup practice. Having said that I am not sure how this would work with tick charts. Tick charts are special in that their idea default normal real life speed on the slider scale would be the speed at which they arrived which hopefully is very close to the same same speed that the trade took place on the exchange (maybe to do an exact relay here the arrival time needs to be used). Maybe discretionary traders who use tick charts do not need replay. For me (after 8 years of very intense almost full time 16/7 study of the market), time is very important (especially at wave tips) which is why I use 10 second bars. I use a wave comparison technique where I put a line from the start of a wave out to the end and clone it to the start of the next wave so I can see how the next wave is progressing on the forward movement relative to the prior wave. It is automatically programmed in EL code to do this based on where I place the arrows at the tops and bottoms of the waves. The line changes color at 75% and 100% and I get a popup notification. I get this on two levels of waves. This is very time based analysis and that is basically why I need time based 10 second bars. I am very happy with my strategy. I will never use a tick chart. Oops! Never say never :-)

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Postby bowlesj3 » 25 Dec 2009

Here are a few things to add to the above post that I created offsite.

Regarding the speed control chart, your current feature of changing it when the trader clicks on a chart is a great feature and it makes it questionable as to whether you need to store what the trader last used since it is so easy for the trader to select it each time.

Here is a better wording for something I mention above. Again for trigger practice I figure all traders when doing trigger practice will normally be using the lowest resolution chart for the “Speed control chart” and my current thinking is that for setup practice (which is a bigger analysis of the market done before they get down to the triggering level) they could simply select the lowest resolution for their “Speed Control Chart” and run it at higher speeds rather than select a larger “Speed control chart” to get the greater speed. On the other hand, If I can select a larger “Speed control chart” for setup I will probably ON OCASSION do that rather than select a smaller “Speed Control Chart” at a higher speed. What I am doing is being realistic here in that I realize (at this point in time at least) that it is probably not that easy to program the syncing up of the charts and the best compromise here is to always keep the smallest resolution as the “Speed Control Chart” and allow the user to use much higher speeds on it for their setup practice.

“Speed Slider”
I think it is pretty obvious that the best default for the speed slider after a “Speed control Chart” selection has been made is the normal real life speed of that selection. Examples:

Code: Select all

SpeedControlChart   (default slider speed)
5 seconds           1 bar every 5 seconds,
10 seconds          1 bar every 10 seconds
1 minute            1 bar every minute.

Maybe the program could remember the trader's last adjustment. As I mentioned above I found I wanted to run 10 second bars at 1 bar every 5 seconds (double the real speed) rather than 1 bar every second (10 times the real speed). However what I found I was doing is I would run faster then as I started to see the trigger approaching I would bring the speed down.

“Speed Slider” continued - This is a very interesting area:
For tick charts it is the speed that the ticks were coming in I guess that would be your default speed. I have no idea how you would deal with this one (maybe apply a tick arrival time stamp makes sense). I don’t know how you have programmed the replay at this point but it appears that in order to get the bars to look exactly as they did when they came in you have recorded the close values of (open, high, low and close) and stepped based upon these values. To me this seems like a very smart way to go and for time based traders it is perfect.

I am very tempted to outline my top down discretionary technique in detail to make it really clear that (for a day trader who is doing trigger practice) the Speed Control Chart needs to be lower than 1 minute bars and they might want to do this practice in all charts global sync mode too (I found that I was using it last night because I was getting all the GV updates from the larger charts as well and I was able to do a true simulation this way - what you have done is really cool and your sales for sure will go up because of it). However I have already written enough and won't get into the details of my system especially since a lot of traders may start using this thread for a topic other than MC6.0 feed back. On the other hand it may take your sales even higher since traders who can't program well may find MC more useful if they have a good system to practice using the replay (maybe you need a thread on using the replay effectively or practicing different trading systems using the replay).

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Postby bowlesj3 » 26 Dec 2009

For the replay it would be useful if the studies could get the replay jump date and time via GVs reserved by MC. I am thinking along the line of info like this.

MC_ReplayStartDate
MC_ReplayStartTime
MC_ReplayStartTime_s

The user could test against the previous values in their studies to detect that a new replay had been started. If these values were zero then the study would know that this is not a replay run or at least that the real time button had been clicked. Maybe zero could be live and real time clicked while MC is off line would send out the last bar on the chart values to these GVs.

Here is what I think I am going to end up doing. The first study on the 10 second bar chart will pick up on the GV that tells it replay mode is in effect. It is set to value 1 in my database program. On the first bar on chart it will set a switch. On the last bar on the chart the above fields will be sent out but also the first time switch will set some GV fields needed by the second study on the chart. The second study will use the above fields and the initialization will have taken place and it will process correctly. It may also have to use the replay mode GV.

Maybe the replay tool bar could have an options button for the above. Maybe reserve words are better. Maybe a replay status (play/pause) would be handy. The advantage of GVs is external programs can detect the replay is in pause mode even if it is stopped where as the study can not ship a reserve word value out to a GV if the study is stopped. All somewhat low prioirty ideas I would think but there you have them for whatever they are worth.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 27 Dec 2009, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 26 Dec 2009

This is sort of interesting. I don't think it was intended but I will mention it.

I was running the replay on 10 second bars. I had the full 1 minute bars showing. I thought I would try (while the 10-second replay was still going) clicking jump and clicking the 1 minute bars in the future of where the 10 second bars were currently replaying then clicking play. What happened was both the 1 minute bars and the 10 second bars were replaying (1 bar per second) but from two different locations. Once the minute bars came to the end of the day it stopped as one would expect and the 10 second bars just kept chugging away as happy as can be.

Now what would be really cool would be if I was smart enough to trade that :-)

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Postby TJ » 26 Dec 2009

This is sort of interesting. I don't think it was intended but I will mention it.

I was running the replay on 10 second bars. I had the full 1 minute bars showing. I thought I would try (while the 10-second replay was still going) clicking jump and clicking the 1 minute bars in the future of where the 10 second bars were currently replaying then clicking play. What happened was both the 1 minute bars and the 10 second bars were replaying (1 bar per second) but from two different locations. Once the minute bars came to the end of the day it stopped as one would expect and the 10 second bars just kept chugging away as happy as can be.

Now what would be really cool would be if I was smart enough to trade that :-)



I tried to "Jump" to tomorrow's chart,
but MultiCharts just stuck at the last bar.

:-(

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Postby brodnicki steven » 26 Dec 2009

TJ- LOL- that's the Holy Grail, we need Andrew to put that on his "to do" list. I'd pay extra for that feature.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 26 Dec 2009

I tried to "Jump" to tomorrow's chart,
but MultiCharts just stuck at the last bar.


I agree, Not being able to see the future has reduced my income too. :( You can buy crystal balls cheap I think :D

Here is an interesting issue. I recently changed some of my EL trigger related code to go after the bid or ask rather than the close price, but during replay it isn't available. So I guess a GV needs to be set to switch it back to the close price during replay. I also had to change it to trigger on the last bar of the chart rather than mid bar. For me it is not a big deal. I manually decide when to switch on the triggering on a final bar to bar stall. I am not practicing the specifics of how the bar to bar stall works. Just the manual part.

Lots of interesting issues come up with this feature.
Last edited by bowlesj3 on 26 Dec 2009, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby tekram » 26 Dec 2009

Good job in general on the playback feature.

Please note that there could be significant lag (or misalignment) in the playback given a large array indicator, two instruments (one 12 range-26days back, one 5 min-55 days back) chart that is not apparently CPU dependent. The large array indicator is based on the second hidden 5 min instrument.

The attached animation showed such a problem with @ES, showing an offset display between the top panel and lower indicator panel if the playback was performed using 'Jump' to 16 day prior to current date. The playback does not show such an offset alignment if played from, say, 8 days prior.
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MCESpblag1.gif
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Postby bowlesj3 » 26 Dec 2009

Here is a little more detail on something I mentioned before.

I am not really using global mode that much at the moment because I can not step the 10 second bars 1 bar at a time when in global mode. However I have been using it to set up some GV settings which can only be set up with global mode running. I run global mode a few bars then pause and switch back to 10 seconds bars to get the detail I need for trigger practice. When I do this and I click the global button all the other 9 charts line up (it takes maybe 3 to 5 seconds to do this which is pretty good) then there is a further delay before the play button becomes available. Sometimes this further delay is fairly long (30 seconds maybe). Like I said, I mentioned this earlier but I had not noticed that the longer delay occurs after all the charts have been lined up. This seems fairly consistent but sometimes it seems a bit longer than at other times. If it was this way in TSS testing then I guess it is normal. Maybe it is the fact that I have 9 charts in the workspace that leads to this delay. If it is normal maybe the message could change after the actual actual chart line-up.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 27 Dec 2009

What I am about to suggest would be helpfull. I often wonder if the global button has created a lock out situation and I start clicking things to try and correct it or get the play button to finally become available.

I noticed that every control on the playback tool has control tip text which the user can see if they put the tip of the cursor just at the very bottom of the control (if they put the cursor in the center of the control they do not see it – this is different than what I am use to since control tip text I am use to uses a “first time show” method). You might want to mention that in your replay manual so they can know about it for the next suggestion. Also for the next suggestion you might want to use the format I use for control tip text which is,

Optionally initials on the control itself if you have room for it.
Control tip text starts with the words for those initials.
After the words there is a dash then the control tip text explains what those words mean and maybe explains the function of the control as part of this. Sometimes I put these explanations in round brackets.

Okay my idea is that you could make room for a small activity box on the playback tool itself to show what the replay is doing when it is busy and the buttons are locked out for a significant length of time (personally I would avoid putting it on the status bar since many users such as myself will not have the activity bar showing so they get more chart space). Room is limited so only have a small activity box. In the box all the user sees is the activity number and the initials and they will change as the activity changes. If they place the cursor at the bottom of this control they can see the control tip text changing which explains what these codes mean and you use the format above I just described. After one time through you will have convinced them that they have to wait and they should be patient. After a while the user will learn to tie the number to a specific amount of wait time, which saves you having to figure out how to estimate it in seconds. Here is a dummy example format. If an activity flashes buy fast they won’t have time to read it so I guess you will have to summarize them properly so they get a general idea.

1-ABC
2-DEFG
3-Whatever.

Maybe total seconds taken so far could be included so they get to know a typical total wait time.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 27 Dec 2009

What I am about to suggest would be helpfull. I often wonder if the global button has created a lock out situation and I start clicking things to try and correct it or get the play button to finally become available.

I noticed that every control on the playback tool has control tip text which the user can see if they put the tip of the cursor just at the very bottom of the control (if they put the cursor in the center of the control they do not see it – this is different than what I am use to since control tip text I am use to uses a “first time show” method). You might want to mention that in your replay manual so they can know about it for the next suggestion. Also for the next suggestion you might want to use the format I use for control tip text which is,

Optionally initials on the control itself if you have room for it.
Control tip text starts with the words for those initials.
After the words there is a dash then the control tip text explains what those words mean and maybe explains the function of the control as part of this. Sometimes I put these explanations in round brackets.

Okay my idea is that you could make room for a small activity box on the playback tool itself to show what the replay is doing when it is busy and the buttons are locked out for a significant length of time (personally I would avoid putting it on the status bar since many users such as myself will not have the activity bar showing so they get more chart space). Room is limited so only have a small activity box. In the box all the user sees is the activity number and the initials and they will change as the activity changes. If they place the cursor at the bottom of this control they can see the control tip text changing which explains what these codes mean and you use the format above I just described. After one time through you will have convinced them that they have to wait and they should be patient. After a while the user will learn to tie the number to a specific amount of wait time, which saves you having to figure out how to estimate it in seconds. Here is a dummy example format. If an activity flashes buy fast they won’t have time to read it so I guess you will have to summarize them properly so they get a general idea.

1-ABC
2-DEFG
3-Whatever.

Maybe total seconds taken so far could be included so they get to know a typical total wait time.

If the play button is locked up for a while, a beep once it is available would allow the trader to do somethine else while they wait and get right to the replay once it is ready.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 27 Dec 2009

I just completed a full run through a trading day where I was actually trying to practice.

The really nice thing about this replay feature is the ability to leave it running on the lowest resolution chart and with just two button clicks start it again from a new location. Its incredible TSS. I find it best to work backward during the trading day to practice the triggering. It is such a fast feature that if the restart location is out of sight to the left you just do it a few times until you get it within sight then you can zero in on it. Running without global mode is okay because the 1 minute bars and larger bars can be used to view the next location to practice but if working backwards global mode would be okay too.

It even does a recalculate on the studies when the restart occurs which is great. I have all the specialized programming in which detects that Replay is in effect.

I find that with the 10 second bars normally I run it at 1 bar a second but I run it faster or slower for special situations but not for all that long (during practice 10 times faster this is a good standard to try and meet). What would be really useful would be a favorite speed button as well as the + and - buttons. Maybe a right click on that button could be used to set the favorite speed to match the current slider speed and the left click to jump the slider back to the favorite speed.

If all this could be done in global mode just as easily and with the SpeedControlChart being the lowest resolution that would be really cool.

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Postby TJ » 28 Dec 2009

now all we need is a sim engine to go with the playback,
that would be the icing on the cake.

;-)

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Postby bowlesj3 » 28 Dec 2009

I have been resisting asking this question but if I don't it is going to drive me crazy all day :roll:

What is a "sim engine"?

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Postby TJ » 28 Dec 2009

a simulated order processor...

for discretionary traders,
he can click buy/sell during the playback...
as if he is trading in real time.

MultiCharts will then tally up your PnL at the end of the day.

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Postby arnie » 28 Dec 2009

a simulated order processor...

for discretionary traders,
he can click buy/sell during the playback...
as if he is trading in real time.

MultiCharts will then tally up your PnL at the end of the day.



That would be something of this world :wink:

With a simulation engine like that, we could almost simulate at a 95% rate or more, the phsycological forces that a discrecionary daytrade is taking every single minute during a trading day.

I would love to have access to that type of "engine" in MC :D

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Postby bowlesj3 » 28 Dec 2009

Regarding your "SIM Engine" TJ,

if I was to run this replay forward in global mode starting back a long ways (or starting back at a database entry if TSS puts that feature in) so I did not know the future (or a student who did not see me do this had no Idea of the future) and just let it run forward at normal speed I could use the database program to create a SIM engine and record the profit and loss of the decisions for the day. If I was to teach and create a test I would probably do that but this would not be possible unless TSS changes the replay to have the default "SpeedControlChart" in global mode as the lowest resolution chart (in my case 10 second bars). I have some of it in place already in that I have a database set up for profit and loss. It just needs some tweaks. Currently I have a system set up where I can show a graphical history of certain decisions made during that period (graphical in that they appear as codes right on the chart itself). It uses a matching record process to bring in the file that has this data. It uses the EL collection MapNN.Next command to match against the bars. I use it off and on. If I had students on a network I would monitor their decisions live.

I won't say much here but The trading system is a top down system where you trade in the direction of a projection that is based off of at least two levels of waves (from the trade wave and up) and triggering is basically done by working down the wave levels (starting from your trade wave level) looking for a break or stall at one level before dropping down to the next level to look for the same thing again. Once these break or stall signals get you down to this very same signal at the tiny wave level you initiate an auto fire trigger to detect a stall at the B Wave level (meaning a bar to bar wave stall as found in the 10 second bars). Repeat bounces are factored in as well. This system has a very good win/loss ratio (losses are typically break even scraches or even 1 unit profit scratches). You can only trade this manually (it is impossible to program because sometimes the number of wave levels of projection changes as does the number of wave levels of trigger - not to mention the bounces as well). You can only program MC's EL to assist you with this system (I have worked fairly hard at trying to figure out how it can be automated and it can't). Therefore the only way you can actually test this system is to test a trader who is trading it or test it manually if you are careful. I am pretty happy with it. It is 99.9% done I figure. Rare changes take about 3 minutes (no EL code programming needed here). I simply change my checklist and it is done. My eyes do what the EL code would have a great deal of trouble doing.

If TSS makes the "SpeedControlChart" change I suggested I may try teaching. We will see. I would like to set up a team trading approach as an alternative if I can find a great student who can trade this system well. I have no doubt that many can do it better than I. The advantage of trading this system as a team is that if one person misses something visually the other hopefully will spot the error.

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Postby brodnicki steven » 28 Dec 2009

I have a "visual" system as well- what I do, is trigger an email and audable alert, when a trade is "close" , that gives me time to see if a good signal is setting up.
That way a "student" shouldn't miss a trade, if he knows what to look for.
I also love the new "playback" feature and used it to look at a couple of weeks of ES, over the long weekend . I was very pleased to see that it works with multiple data streams, as long as you're in "global" mode.
It's going to be a big help to visual system traders. I think it can actually be used to "tune" indicators, so they will look the way you want, just prior to a trade.
Great job TSS support !

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Postby bowlesj3 » 28 Dec 2009

Hi Steven,

Is your lowest resolution chart at least 1 minute bars (or greater) and do your final trigger signals come from this chart (or at least primarily from this chart). If you are not using a resolution below 1 minute then global mode is fine for you.

John.

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Postby brodnicki steven » 28 Dec 2009

Hi Steven,

Is your lowest resolution chart at least 1 minute bars (or greater) and do your final trigger signals come from this chart (or at least primarily from this chart). If you are not using a resolution below 1 minute then global mode is fine for you.

John.


**John: I was trying it out with 5 min and 30 min bars together.

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Postby bowlesj3 » 28 Dec 2009

Regarding this problem I reported on the first page,
However I noticed in the replay that the "1 update every 2 secs, 3seconds and 4seconds" is missing. It jumps directly from 1 update every 1 second to one update every 5 seconds yet there are snap positions for these other speeds.


I layed out the exact slider control speeds I am getting when the "SpeedControlChart" as I call it is set to 10 second bars.

1 update every 10 seconds
1 update every 9 seconds
1 update every 8 seconds
1 update every 7 seconds
1 update every 5 seconds
1 update every 1 second (should be 4 seconds)
1 update every 1 second (should be 3 seconds)
1 update every 1 second (should be 2 seconds)
1 update every 1 second
1 update every 1 second (duplicated the one above it)
2 updates every 1 second
2 updates every 1 second
3 updates every 1 second
5 updates every 1 second
10 updates every 1 second
11 updates every 1 second
10 updates every 1 second
11 updates every 1 second
12 updates every 1 second
14 updates every 1 second
16 updates every 1 second
20 updates every 1 second
25 updates every 1 second
33 updates every 1 second
50 updates every 1 second
100 updates every 1 second


The very quick jump up to very high speeds is really good for moving quickly to another practice point in the future. I have started to do this by sliding the contol right to the far right, watching the prices move quickly buy then pulling the slider very quickly back to the far left to stop it. At that point I use the jump button to move back to the exact start point and then if it existed I would use the button for a traders favorite speed.

As far as the useful speeds that are missing shown again below along with the "1 update every 1 second" which is also a good speed to work with,

1 update every 1 second (should be 4 seconds)
1 update every 1 second (should be 3 seconds)
1 update every 1 second (should be 2 seconds)
1 update every 1 second

I am finding 1 update every 1 second at times is just a touch too fast and if a favorite speed button was put on I might set it at "1 update every 1 second" then click the "-" button to back it off to one of the slightly slower useful speeds above. For a difficult trade I might back it off 2 speeds and for easier trades maybe only back it off one speed.

The interesting gaps in the higher speeds makes me curious how these speeds came about. If they were just randomly chosen then maybe some traders would want to fine tune the gaps and request a way to do that. For me including the missing ones is probably all I would ever request.

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MC 6.0 plotting different data than MC 5.5

Postby arnie » 30 Dec 2009

Hi.

Apparently MC 6.0 is not handling data as MC 5.5.

I used the same database in both MC versions. I copied TSSTORAGE.GDB into my laptop and compared the ES charts.

Please see images attached.
In them I focused on a especific day (26-11-2009, an holiday), but this type of issue is happening all over the database (from 11-12-2007 til today).

Basically, MC 6.0 is not plotting November 26. It jumps from 23:59, November 25 to 12:04, November 27.

As we can see in the images presented, MC 5.5 is plotting November 26.

How can the same database plot different results?
Why MC 6.0 not plotting the holidays? At least November 26 is an holiday. All the other days where this is happening, I didn't confirm if all are holidays.
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ES_MC5.5_26-11-2009.png (46.38 KiB) Viewed 1156 times
ES_MC6.0_26-11-2009.png
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TJ
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Re: MC 6.0 plotting different data than MC 5.5

Postby TJ » 30 Dec 2009

Hi.

Apparently MC 6.0 is not handling data as MC 5.5.
....



That's a continuous contract.

Are you using the same rollover rules for both charts?

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arnie
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Re: MC 6.0 plotting different data than MC 5.5

Postby arnie » 30 Dec 2009

That's a continuous contract.

Are you using the same rollover rules for both charts?


Yes.

I'm using the continuos IQFeed ticker (@ES#).

QM setting are also equal in both MC version.

I check this year, and this is always happening on holidays.
Is there a on/off switch to this?

I can't find it.

Please don't tell me that I need to delete the dates from the Holidays menu in QM. It would be quite awkward.

smashthepound
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Renko charts not going back far enough in history

Postby smashthepound » 31 Dec 2009

Anyone else have a problem with Renko charts not going back far enough in history?


Yes.

I am using esignal. For PF, Renko and Kagi charts it seems to get only 14 days of data.

LB looks fine.


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