?is true? or..Why I don´t see that in Announcements forum?

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gregorio123456
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?is true? or..Why I don´t see that in Announcements forum?

Postby gregorio123456 » 30 Mar 2010

I´m ??????
I get this email

(((

Dear (My name),

As you may know, MultiCharts has opened a new North American office. The response from our existing users has been very positive. Many people are expressing interest in obtaining additional licenses, so to celebrate the opening of our new office MultiCharts is pleased to announce a special offer for existing Lifetime License owners.




For a limited time--the promotion ends April 9, 2010--Lifetime License owners only are eligible to get additional licenses at a price significantly below what is available on our website or anywhere else. THIS OFFER IS NOT AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE. You can only obtain this special pricing offer by calling me at (888) 340-6572, extension 1003, or by emailing me at jjenkins@multicharts.com. I am available Monday through Friday from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. EST.

I look forward to hearing from you. Please don't wait to call me because this special offer will not be extended beyond April 9, 2010.

Best regards,

Jeff Jenkins
Account Executive
MultiCharts, LLC
U.S Toll-Free and International: 1-888-340-6572, ext. 1003
jjenkins@multicharts.com
)))))

Jo

brodnicki steven
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Postby brodnicki steven » 30 Mar 2010

I received the same email today- I assume it's real, since they've done it before. I'd love to have a second license for rt testing with a practice account but money is tight. the price would have to be VERY reasonable.

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Postby geizer » 30 Mar 2010

I received the same email today- I assume it's real, since they've done it before. I'd love to have a second license for rt testing with a practice account but money is tight. the price would have to be VERY reasonable.


Although I have not received any promotion offer, I can always find the money for a 2nd development version of MultiCharts. The price tag has to be REAL attractive (similar to what it was just 2 months before I bought my 1st MultiCharts Licence).

Willingness to negotiate would help to close the deal.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 31 Mar 2010

It's a real promotional offer. Simply email Jeff at the address above or give him a call for the details privately if you're interested.

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Postby brodnicki steven » 01 Apr 2010

I received the same email today- I assume it's real, since they've done it before. I'd love to have a second license for rt testing with a practice account but money is tight. the price would have to be VERY reasonable.


Although I have not received any promotion offer, I can always find the money for a 2nd development version of MultiCharts. The price tag has to be REAL attractive (similar to what it was just 2 months before I bought my 1st MultiCharts Licence).

Willingness to negotiate would help to close the deal.


* I agree, I feel the additional license should cost maybe 1/2 to 2/3 of your original license. Instead it is much MORE (almost double for me, I checked). Maybe I'm wrong but that doesn't make sense to me. The first license should be the most expensive.
That's something that I loved about TS2ki, you could run as many copies as you liked for free, after the original license. As I have 4 computers, it was a great benefit.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 01 Apr 2010

The only way the 2nd license would normally be MORE than the first is if you bought it a number of years ago and so the pricing was cheaper then because of course the software was more basic when it was first introduced. That doesn't mean that others' new licenses are at that rate or that your new license would be at the years ago rate - that would just be a function of having bought the first one years ago.

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Postby geizer » 01 Apr 2010

Steven, I totally share your thoughts.

Bruce
My price target is 499 for a 2nd license. 750 maximum - only if TSS provide enough arguments that they will dedicate more resources for cleaning old bugs and taking product into a 'stable' stage.

In case Bruce, you decide to ask, here is my answer: I paid a full price of 1497. That was 'years' ago (considering the age of MultiCharts). 22 months back to be more specific. Since then I've stolen more time from my Son than paid for a license by diverting my attention to reporting bugs and beta-testing. Considering the time value of money, it's called a subsidy paid to TS Support to support their business operations with time and money in exchange for future benefits. Nothing new here, but it's a VERY high price paid. Let's make no mistake here. You know what I mean. In such situation asking for more money as you do in this promotion must be accompanied by the official open position by TS Support. I am glad to see that Stanley Miller understands this by making all feature upgrades free. Let's see how this holds against future.

Despite all the facts I still do beta-testing (although I don't know anymore whether I should continue - TSS merely provide feedback to bug reports, most of them go into a black hole, as if TSS no longer interested and don't give a .... about it. Marina communicated things extremely well).
In case Jeff, or pardon me, Bruce you're still wondering - I paid a full price 'back then' for something yet to be delivered in the future. Specifically, I paid for the scanner that existed only on the paper (MC v 3.0) at that time. I'm not going to go into particular details of where scanner is today. It's made a good progress, a descent progress. I am sincerely grateful to Andrew and Marina for this. Although a lot to be desired still.

My expectation of the price tag I mentioned above based on the following:

1. This is a risk amount I am willing to pay.
2. The development version does not have to come with all bells & whistles
3. The development license is meant for R&D, not for trading.
4. Development license creates one more seat. The user base is increased by +1
5. Each development license has a potential for becoming a 'full' license down the road.
6. Competitors provide R&D license for free. Each and every 'free' competitor's license installed adds +1 to their user base, while potentially limiting by -1 the number of MultiCharts users.
7. Based on the previous fact, it does not matter how low the price of a 2nd, 'development' Multicharts license, its still orders of magnitude higher than free.

8. The cost of becoming a beta-tester of competitor is zero.
9. The entry price to become a MultiCharts beta-tester is 1500 bucks.
(Q: TSS, are you going to do anything about it ???)

10. Now on the cost of developing: Basic math: One full competitor license + one free (R&D) = $1500. Not so with MultiCharts (two licenses =$3000). The cost of building a small team of 2 and develop for MultiCharts is double compared to competitors. It's better for me to buy into competitor at this stage and have two seats to develop than buy into 2nd MultiCharts license. I mean, really! That's what matters! If I build a team to develop for different platform, then transferring the code to EL down the road will be a pure technical task. But can TSS afford to loose existing users because of high licensing cost of developing ? This one is an important question to be answered.

Enough said, If sales are willing to negotiate please give me a call. I tried to call but the phone is not answering despite being 2:30 PM Eastern. The advertised office hrs are 9-5PM Eastern.

--
Pavel

edit: removed direct reference to competitor
Last edited by geizer on 05 Apr 2010, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Spaceant » 02 Apr 2010

Now on the cost of developing: Basic math: One full NT license + one free (R&D) = $1500. Not so with MultiCharts (two licenses =$3000). The cost of building a small team of 2 and develop for MultiCharts is double compared to NT. It's better for me to buy into NT at this stage and have two seats to develop than buy into 2nd MultiCharts license. I mean, really! That's what matters! If I build a team to develop for NT, then transferring the code to EL down the road will be a pure technical task.


Well, I share the exact feeling!!

When I opened the promotional message few days ago, I did have the intention to buy a second license if the promtional price was really attractive. I was really surprised, to be frank, to know the promotional price afterwards when M. Noel sent me the email.

With the present license setting, one can run MC to trade in trading hours and can't do any development / testing with another computer. Technically speaking, he can run one month during the free trial period. All in all, MC is too costly (trading + development / testing) when compared with competitors.

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Postby MC_Prog » 02 Apr 2010

"Buy once, run on all your computers" is very attractive model from the user standpoint. Some platforms recognize this, and offer it, and gain that particular competitive advantage.

I wouldn't argue that a company doesn't give up some revenue by going this way. After all, there's always some price many people would happily pay for additional licenses. There's also some price fewer people would grudgingly pay for additional licenses. On that scale, there is a (perhaps unknowable) maximum point for revenue created.

However, raw revenue per existing customer is not the only consideration. Also in the mix is "word of mouth", "terms of the deal", and how easily new customers are attracted by same.

Two things that attract new customers are glowing reports from existing customers about how well they are treated, and up-front terms of the deal that promise access to a great tool as and where needed (i.e. more than one computer) at an attractive price.

FWIW, my advice would be to offer access on 2 machines with the base purchase (i.e. the $1495 purchase), and then make access on additional machines very attractive (e.g. say, $250 per machine).

Very few people are going to pay the cost of their hardware again for the priv of running MC on it. Asking them to is a business model from 20 years ago ... (and a much hated one). There are too many good alternative ways to spend the money these days! (i.e. one of the other platforms that doesn't make this demand)

If people know they can pony-up for another box, and then run MC on that box at a good price, the entire notion becomes attractive. People will buy the box, and the extra MC license just because the total cost/benefit makes sense. OTOH, if the total cost is known to be way too high in advance, this never happens and realized additional revenue for TSS is 0.

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Postby arnie » 02 Apr 2010

Hi.

I don't see why we're discussing MCs 1st licence price since we all agreed to pay for it, thus, agreeing with it.

I think that we need to focus our attention on the 2nd licence, when used for development/beta tests.

I do agree that some MC competitors do offer better deals in terms of price regarding a 2nd licence, and TSSupport should take this in consideration when dealing those type of licences.

Maybe TSSupport could create a list of clients that, agreeing with a couple of rules, could receive that 2nd licence, free of charge.

Lets face it, not everybody is willing to lose their time in testing beta versions or even backtest their indicators due to lack of EL knowledge and again, lack of time and patience to learn it.
These people are the ones, that needing for a 2nd licence, it will be for trading purposes, nothing more.

Then we have other clients, that are willing to help TSSupport in enhance their product, giving their free time, or not, in testing beta versions and their own indicators/trading systems.
These are the ones that a 2nd licence will be for development purposes and, naturally that can use it also for trading.

This second type of clients should have some type of benefits regarding the first type.
As we know, there will be always people that abuse the vote of confidence that was deposit on them, so, here is where the "rules" come up.

TSSupport could create a couple of rules that the clients should be able to comply with in order to receive the 2nd licence for free.

Rules such as, reporting regularly bugs or ideas to enhance MC, things that, are already being given here in the forum by a couple of users/clients that should be recognized by TSSupport, thus I'm mentioning a free licence instead of a reduction in price.


But I also agree that one licence should be able to work on 2 computers at the same time, though this would mean also 2 data feeds, but that is another history.
Antivirus software nowadays are selling licences that permit the installation on 2 or even 3 computers at a price much more competitive when buying a 1 licence for 1 computer.

Since TSSupport is known as a company that really listen to what their costumers have to say, otherwise we couldn't have seen all the enhancements made this last couple of years, all of them requested in this forum, I'm sure that they will take in consideration everything that it's being said in here.


Regards,
Fernando

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Postby janus » 02 Apr 2010

I think that we need to focus our attention on the 2nd licence, when used for development/beta tests.


I agree. The point of the matter is if MC wants to maximize their development/beta testing user base to iron out as many of the bugs as possible in the least time to expedite the official release and gain new customers ASAP, then the licence has to be free. When the testing is complete and the full version released, then it could expire. I would be very hesitant to use it for real trading. After all, it's bound to have bugs otherwise there wouldn't be any need for beta testing. Those that do use it for real trading do so at their own risk and will suffer the consequences.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 02 Apr 2010

The issue of beta testing is a separate one from the issue of users who want a second license for whatever other purpose.

I agree that having a "beta license" that runs the beta version, has no cost, expires when the beta does, and is extended to users who already have a regular license, request a beta license, and agree to give feedback (in whatever form this takes) is something they should consider and that could potentially make a lot of sense.

I also agree that from time to time TSS might consider rewarding privately those who have obviously spent huge amounts of time helping with testing/support of the beta or of the regular versions in some manner. However, that should be up to them only if they feel (in private - not in public discussion in the peer support forums) that it's justified based on what's actually been done, and isn't how they should price or license their products in general, which is a simple business question. Different vendors have different pricing and licensing models, and there's no one right answer for everything, while at the same time, it's always a good idea to look at what other vendors are doing, what works, and what looks like it could best be adapted in each case. This is something they could give some thought to, and it's ultimately up to them how they want to position, price, and license their products.

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Postby geizer » 02 Apr 2010

TSSupport is known as a company that really listen to what their costumers have to say

Very well said. This is what makes TS Support stand apart from the crowd.

Re: 2nd license.
Dear Andrew and the team,
I am dying to have the 2nd license. In order to make the development more efficient I am thinking to take a partner and build a small team. The license does not need to be a trading license, all I need is to have a 2nd seat to develop. The current cost of license makes it prohibitive to go this route. The reasons are not hard to understand because there are other costs I will have to absorb. Also, we need to preserve capital for trading by the end of the development. The cost of development license today is prohibitive. As a result, no advancement is being made. That being said, the free license is not an alternative also, because adding more users to the user's base will increase the demand for a tech support. The license figures mentioned in my previous post take in consideration all the factors. While it's a lot less than 1500, it also still a lot more than 'free' offered by competitors. What TSS has to lose? Better focusing on what you gain by increasing the user base. Some compromise is in the interests of all: we need a win/win situation.

May everyone have a great weekend and enjoy sun! Spring is here!
Cheers

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Postby tekram » 02 Apr 2010

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
something about repetitive statements of love and loyalty to the subject in question.

If you like the product and wants to support it, buy it, buy it twice and buy it thrice. If you don't, move on.

That said, I don't know how much of a cut Jenkins is getting, so may be you can get a better price and still support MC.

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Postby janus » 02 Apr 2010

The cost of development license today is prohibitive. As a result, no advancement is being made. That being said, the free license is not an alternative also, because adding more users to the user's base will increase the demand for a tech support. The license figures mentioned in my previous post take in consideration all the factors. While it's a lot less than 1500, it also still a lot more than 'free' offered by competitors. What TSS has to lose? Better focusing on what you gain by increasing the user base. Some compromise is in the interests of all: we need a win/win situation.


Well said. I agree 100%. To be successful in most businesses involving competitors, one has to be competitive not just on quality but also price.

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Postby brodnicki steven » 02 Apr 2010

The cost of development license today is prohibitive. As a result, no advancement is being made. That being said, the free license is not an alternative also, because adding more users to the user's base will increase the demand for a tech support. The license figures mentioned in my previous post take in consideration all the factors. While it's a lot less than 1500, it also still a lot more than 'free' offered by competitors. What TSS has to lose? Better focusing on what you gain by increasing the user base. Some compromise is in the interests of all: we need a win/win situation.


Well said. I agree 100%. To be successful in most businesses involving competitors, one has to be competitive not just on quality but also price.


** I agree. I also think MC support would sell 10x secondary licenses(maybe even 3 or 4 to some) at $600 ea range, than the current well over $1000 price. I wish they would consider it just once and see the response.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 03 Apr 2010

FWIW, my advice would be to offer access on 2 machines with the base purchase (i.e. the $1495 purchase), and then make access on additional machines very attractive (e.g. say, $250 per machine).

What I don't follow is how, if they did this, one user wouldn't simply buy 1 license then "sell" licenses to all of their friends/whoever for $255... I don't object to the idea in principle that there be a way to scale at reduced cost... it simply seems like implementation of this could be really problematic from a business standpoint and even if TSS felt like this was a "winning deal" (which I really don't presume to be the case as that's quite unclear) it could likely have to come with more in the way of restrictions to make it work.

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Postby RobotMan » 05 Apr 2010

Off-topic, put I have to chime in...

Geizer said
Despite all the facts I still do beta-testing (although I don't know anymore whether I should continue - TSS merely provide feedback to bug reports, most of them go into a black hole, as if TSS no longer interested and don't give a .... about it. Marina communicated things extremely well).

Here here. I agree.

If I am going to help TSS beta test, I would like to have one copy that works (released version) and one copy to torture (beta version). Why should I pay to help? Right now, anyone can grab a beta version, whether they realize it has bugs or not, and pay full price to use it after 30 days. They then come on this forum and say "hey, I found what looks like a bug!" and not get one damn peep from TSS. Meanwhile, they are using it as their main charting software and enduring the bugs they find while they might like to un-istall it and revert back to the "released" version but without the functions that actually *do* work in the beta that they like and need. I, myself, have stopped any beta testing until I get some feedback/fix from TSS about two huge bugs: intrabarpersist, and volume on rangebars (yes, I am pouting).

I don't normally like to dwell on other charting software on this forum, but others do their beta's better. One, I won't mention any names,(but their initials are NT), at least initially qualify their beta testers and are active in the forums and the software is free to try indefinitely. (To be fair their new version has taken forever to release and many have jumped ship)

These dubious TSS secret handshakes through special deal emails just smell funny. And that's my 2¢.

Bruce: You may now begin your defense of TSS. :lol:

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 05 Apr 2010

Not to worry - I understand where you are coming from. I don't decide licensing policy obviously - it's up to TS Support to decide how they want to license and price their products.

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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 08 Apr 2010

Dear Valued Customer,
MultiCharts, in an attempt to respond to what our Customers have requested, has opened a North American office located in Columbus, Ohio. This North American office will help provide better customer support and help improve the marketing and sales of our products. We view this expansion as a win/win for our company and our customers.
Because many customers had expressed an interest in owning additional licenses, MultiCharts decided to show our appreciation for customer loyalty by offering a discounted promotional price exclusively to Lifetime License owners. We thought it appropriate to have our team in Columbus introduce this program to our Lifetime License owners, and decided not to publicize the offer otherwise. Nothing about this method of conveying the information was meant to appear conspiratorial. The company set the pricing of the additional licenses and did not authorize our new employees to negotiate.
While MultiCharts understands that some customers purchased older versions of the software program at different prices, the current pricing reflects the increased functionality and benefits of the program: The latest version of the program is a much better program than earlier versions. The current pricing model also allows us to continue developing improvements to the program, and makes it possible for Lifetime License owners to receive free upgrades to the new versions when released.
For the individuals who purchased, as an example version 1.5, and would like to get another license for a similar price to that previously paid we have two responses. First, we would be happy to provide anyone an additional license of the version first acquired, without the ability to upgrade to the latest version, for the same price originally paid. Second, we would hope you enjoy the improved functionality of MultiCharts and want an additional license for the current version, entitling you to free upgrades to newer versions as they are released, because of the value it represents today. Please understand we are offering a discount for the additional license as a way of saying “Thank You.” A simple analogy for this second response is the way many auto manufacturers provide discounts via customer loyalty programs. Those discounts are off the price of the new car and do not have any relationship to what the customer paid for a car from that manufacturer in the past; they are simply an acknowledgement and sign of appreciation for customer loyalty. You do not get to buy the new BMW for the same, or a lower, price than you paid for the BMW you bought five years ago.
Finally, we want to address the notion that MultiCharts should be free since there are other programs available for free, or advertised as free even though to use the program fully charges do apply. A lot of things are available for free, and most are worth the price you pay; in other words, like the old saying, “you get what you pay for.” Most MultiCharts users, and we hope all would agree but want to avoid the categorical statement, appreciate the stability, the reliability, and the quality of the MultiCharts program. An equal number of people like the greater flexibility, both in terms of data providers and brokers supported as well as the charting and backtesting/auto-trading functions. We do not believe that those characteristics, and many others, can be matched by other, free programs.
We hope that you find our new office helpful. Many more changes are in the works and will be introduced at the appropriate time. We look forward to working with all of you and appreciate your patronage.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 08 Apr 2010

Thank you Andrew for taking the time to post this clarification. This should go a long way to alleviating the concerns discussed.

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Postby RobotMan » 08 Apr 2010

These dubious TSS secret handshakes through special deal emails just smell funny. And that's my 2¢.

OK, Andrew I might have over reacted, but I did say it was an off-topic post.
I don't have an issue with price or how TSS offers additional licenses. That is your business.

My beef is with people in this forum "partnering" with TSS to help make the Beta's better and not getting feedback from someone actually representing TSS. Even if it is to say, "We cannot read the forum right now because we are short staffed" or "That's a stupid idea". At least that is feedback. But to just disappear for weeks and then not to have any acknowledgment of potential Beta bug sightings and GUI suggestions that people are submitting is very disheartening, not to mention discouraging. I see great posts by John Bowles, TJ, janus, and Bruce (among so many others) but I don't know if anyone from TSS is even aware of their freely given efforts and suggestions to help improve your product.

Of course we are here helping each other. But, by and large you have a very loyal and dedicated following. We are all excited about MC and the potential we see and are experiencing by contributing posts to this forum.

Exit question: Are we wasting our time with analysis and suggestions until you replace Marina?

(This post is mainly for Andrew, but others of you might feel I am being unfair and I know it is your protective nature of Andrew... So let the bashing of Bob begin!)

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Postby Andrew Kirillov » 08 Apr 2010

Dear Bob,
Of course you are not wasting your time. We do read it the forum. We analyze the most critical issues. We simply don't comment as often as we want. We will fix this issue very soon. Thank you for understanding.


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