TS 9 will be very tough for MC to be compatible

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LMC
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TS 9 will be very tough for MC to be compatible

Postby LMC » 08 Jul 2010

Keep it UP, TSsupport !! Tough challenge ahead !

See this reply from Wouter of the Grail Ssytem to an user,

Please pay special attention to point #6 bolded part.

QUOTE...

Grant

Thank you! The above announcement is indeed a milestone for The Grail and I am happy to share with you some of the benefits that Grail users can be looking forward to:

Integrating Grail into the TS platform, will provide the following benefits to existing Grail users:
1. Grail will no longer be backed by a one man business with its associated risks. Partnering up with a larger company, will thus ensure continuity for Grail users, in case anything should happen to myself, and users will be ensured that the software remain available, usable and being further developed for many years to come.

2. TS will provide Grail complete access to fully integrate Grail into their trading platform. This will provide significant scope to increase both the user friendliness and performance of Grail.
Indications thusfar shows that we should be able to more than double the speed of GGO/GWFO/CASB optimizations, even without the effect of multi-threading.
Integrating the GGO/GWFO/CASB into TS will mean that the Grail is no longer standalone software. This means that the end user no more has to perform the tedious process of transferring strategies to/from the GGO SmartEditor.
In other words, the user will be able to setup his GGO/CASB optimization within TS itself just like one would setup optimization ranges when performing a Genetic optimization using the built in TS genetic optimizer.
Also, integrating Grail into TS will allow users to use the GWFO with protected strategies which is not currently possible.

3. Allow simplified installation & registration procedure. Once Grail is integrated in TS, users will not have to go through the tedious process of re-registering Grail over and over again.

4. Up until now, the greatest limitation for further expansion of Grail was the fact that it was a standalone application. Thus it had to deal with lots of intricacies & limitations in communicating with the underlying platform. Now that Grail will be integrated into TS, it will greatly simplify these intricacies and remove virtually all existing architectural limits, thereby opening up huge possibilities for further enhancements.
Here I am thinking in the line of applying Grail at a portfolio level etc.etc. which was not possible as standalone software. For example, it would be a major convenience to be able to load a list of instruments and then have Grail automatically run single walk-forward analysis and/or cluster analysis for each instrument in the table. By testing the same strategy across other similar/related instruments, we will further reduce the chance of over-fitting, making sure that only truly robust strategies are finally implemented.

5. As part of the integration process the, CASB will get a complete new facelift to improve the user friendliness of the front-end and making it more intuitive for the end-user.
Obviously this is going to take some time, but the end-result will be more than worth the wait.

6. The decision to join TS (and moving my whole family to Florida) was not taken lightly. One of the main factors that swayed my decision was the fact that TS took me into their confidence sharing sensitive information about certain functionality to be released in the new TS 9.0.
While I cannot share details at this moment, I can say that TS will be releasing some extremely powerful functionality with TS 9.0.
In my own opinion, this functionality is going to take the TS platform to a new level where it will be very difficult for any other platform to compete. In this regard I had to consider the impact on MultiCharts users of the Grail software.
Whereas less than 20% of the Grail user base are currently “MultiCharts only” users, I had to give priority to the overwhelming benefits that the more than 80% other users are going to enjoy in the long run.
In short, the implication of the new technology to be introduced by TS, will result in MultiCharts not being compatible with a large number of extremely powerful commands and functionality to be introduced in TS 9.0. In fact, from here on MultiCharts will have great difficulty to maintain its EasyLanguage compatibility.
While TS has been working on this new technology for more than 5 years, it is now time for TS to move the goal posts and I have to admit, I think they are indeed doing so! Realistically speaking, I cannot see how MultiCharts will be able to catch up with the new TS9.0 functionality soon. (It might take them several years) As soon as I can share more detail, it will be more clear what I meant above.

7. The backing provided by TS, both financial and also in terms of manpower, will allow us to further develop Grail to its full potential. This will include much improved documentation as well as courses and/or tutorials teaching Grail users how to get the most out of their GWFO/CASB.

8. Technovest(Pty)Ltd will continue to provide technical support to all existing users of the Grail standalone software, regardless of the platform it is being used with. Technovest(Pty)Ltd will also continue to issue licences whenever an existing user need to install the software on a new computer.

9. Finally I have to mention that before I made my final decision, I spent a considerable amount of time with TS top management. I was especially impressed with the quality of people I met at the TS head office. Honest people, willing to walk an extra mile even during difficult times.
After all, TS is the true inventor of EasyLanguage, a language that has become an industry standard and changed all of our lives. Without TS, there would have been no Grail in the first instance!
Indeed, exciting times are lying ahead. In fact, I predict that together with the new functionality to be released in TS9.0, the new TS9.0 with Grail is going to establish itself as the true leader when it comes to systematic trading.

Wouter

UNQUOTE


Reply from Tssupport...

kiasom
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Postby kiasom » 08 Jul 2010

If you read the whole thread, another picture is emerging... TS users are quite cynical:
www.TS.com/Discussions/Topic. ... xactMatch=

TS9 will supposedly solve a lot of the big issues with TS8, but the history of TS development tells me that TS9 will take several years to become stable. So MC will have plenty of time to catch up with object orientation, 64 bit version etc.
Also, I don't see that the Grail has that much to add to average MC users. We already have a very fast and well functioning optimization, with both genetics and forward walk.

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geizer
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Postby geizer » 08 Jul 2010

LMC,
What is the purpose of your post?
What are you trying to achieve by posting on the MultiCharts forum?
...
just curious...

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TJ
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Postby TJ » 08 Jul 2010

I do not have access to TS's forum or the Grail's forum;
These posts keep me informed, that's ok with me.

LMC
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Postby LMC » 09 Jul 2010

geizer,

the purpose ?
are you using MC and/or TS ? ... and why r u here ?
I'd rather leave it to you to figure it out.

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Re: TS 9 will be very tough for MC to be compatibl

Postby janus » 09 Jul 2010

I don't understand why there is a need for MC to be 100% compatible with TS (and vice versa for that matter). They are diverging products, and it's impossible to retain total compatibility because each will develop new features in their own way.

tekram
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Re: TS 9 will be very tough for MC to be compatibl

Postby tekram » 09 Jul 2010

Keep it UP, TSsupport !! Tough challenge ahead !

See this reply from Wouter of the Grail Ssytem to an user,

Please pay special attention to point #6 bolded part.

Grant ..
Wouter


Reply from Tssupport...

Welcome to the forum. This topic has been covered extensively a few weeks back with replies from Tssupport, in this thread: http://forum.tssupport.com/viewtopic.php?t=7500
Last edited by tekram on 09 Jul 2010, edited 1 time in total.

MicroTr
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Compatability TS 9.0

Postby MicroTr » 09 Jul 2010

Does it really matter than MC will not be compatable with TS 9.0? The advantage of MC is that you can use the many thousands of strategies indicators etc previously written in Easy Language and use these in MC for development testing etc. As already said by another poster MC is a significant product in its own right now which has the added advantage of using at least a subset of Easy Language. IMHO I believe development time is better served by improving MC (e.g adding Time and Sales and a DOM) rather than worrying too much about the latest TS compatabililty.

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RobotMan
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Postby RobotMan » 09 Jul 2010

While I cannot share details at this moment, I can say that TS will be releasing some extremely powerful functionality with TS 9.0.

Wow. 10 years has just flown by. It's about time that TS improved their product.


While TS has been working on this new technology for more than 5 years, it is now time for TS to move the goal posts...

...Realistically speaking, I cannot see how MultiCharts will be able to catch up with the new TS9.0 functionality

5 years in the software industry is like 3 or 4 generations. What have they got to show? Vaporware comes to mind.

You know what makes TS truly functional? Your own broker and Owndata2.

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Dave Masalov
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Postby Dave Masalov » 09 Jul 2010

Dear Sirs,

We tend to think of TS 9 more as a hype than a real product. If it will be written form scratch, the process of debugging and ironing out all the issues will take years. So we will have enough time to make MultiCharts a complete trading application with visual trading, manual trading, DOM etc. If TS 9 will be the evolution of TS 8 (and we believe this is the case), it will be object-oriented just as TS 8 is. Some time will be required to understand the benefits of Grail integrating. If we see that it is really worth it, we will add this feature. However we do not plan to do that for the moment.

LMC
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Postby LMC » 09 Jul 2010

Dave,

First line of my original message was overseen by some people.
Hopefully you did not.

With 47000+ users, no one will doubt how influencial TS can be.
Yes, they may have been sleeping well for some years till MC 6 comes out...

Looking forward to trying real time portfolio trading (this should leave TS far behind) and lots other features from MC !

LMC

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Postby janus » 09 Jul 2010

[quote]
With 47000+ users, no one will doubt how influencial TS can be.
Yes, they may have been sleeping well for some years till MC 6 comes out...
/quote]

Irrelevant. As I said over and over again, TS and MC are diverging products. As time goes on, they will be less and less compatible - that's natural. The basic language will remain the same, but as each product extends the language, adds functions and features, I don't expect MC to maintain compatibility. There are more important things to focus on to make MC a much more superior product. Besides, maintaining compatibility won't on its own attract that many users away from TS. Despite its problems and deficiencies in some areas, TS not a really bad product. The only way to attract TS users to MC I believe is to focus on enhancing MC. Then and only then will TS users think about switching, and doing the necessary tweaks to their custom code to make things work in MC. That's how competition works in the software business.

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TS's main problem isn't their platform

Postby PD Quig » 12 Jul 2010

TS's main problem is that they want to make money off of their ridiculously weak brokerage arm. By failing to support easy integration to IB and other real brokers, TS has chosen to improve their platform while leaving their users unable to successfully execute their strategies. What is the value of developing killer long/short strategies on instruments that are perpetually impossible to borrow from TS? That is why I left TS - in the end, many of my strategies worked long only. They could have the best optimizer in the world and it won't matter a damn if you cannot execute.

My two cents.

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TJ
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Re: TS 9 will be very tough for MC to be compatibl

Postby TJ » 16 Sep 2010

just heard from a TS9 beta tester:

TS9 is NOT multi-thread capable.


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