DOM and Trade Management Issues  [SOLVED]

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zegna1
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DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby zegna1 » 24 Apr 2013

First, let me start by saying that Multicharts DOM is intuitive and offer great features. However, there are several issues with DOM and the way Multicharts handles trades that need to be addressed. The purpose of this discussion thread is to bring these issues to Multicharts’ attention to help fix, improve, and enhance Multicharts DOM and trade management.

1. Issues with trading multiple contacts

For example, when trading 2 futures contracts with 2 different entry prices, Multicharts not only averages the entry prices, but also averages the attached stops and trailing stops when prices go against entry, which defeats the purpose of the original strategy of having 2 stops and 2 trailing stops, 1 set for each of the contacts, staged at specific price levels. In some cases, when profit target for contract 1 is hit, Multicharts closes both contracts and associated exit strategy for contract 1 but leaves exit strategies for contract 2 in place, which cause the exit strategies for contract 2 to become new orders to enter the market. Multicharts should at least offer the option not to average any prices (i.e. entry prices, stop loss, trailing stops, and profit targets) and leave orders intact as entered by the user without manipulation.

Note, similar issue has been reported by another user back in Nov 2012 (see https://www.multicharts.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11446)

2. DOM is NOT unique instance to each workspace or instrument

DOM is not a unique instance to each workspace or instrument. In other words, if one sets up stop loss, profit target, etc. for instrument A in a standalone DOM or a DOM in workspace designated to instrument A, the order and strategy settings have to be changed if one decides to trade instrument B from another standalone DOM or a DOM in a workspace designated to instrument B. Later if one decides to switch back to trade instrument A, the order and strategy setting have to be changed again to trade instrument A.

This is a serious issue because stop loss and exit targets for, say ES#, is not the same as NQ# or CL or stocks for that matter. It is both time consuming and missed opportunities to keep changing these setting when trading multiple instruments in fast moving markets. Saving strategies as templates for different instruments is a cumbersome and inefficient solution. Just imagine how many templates you need to maintain and shuffle through, if you are trading multiple instruments.

Below are links to requests made to Multicharts about these issues. Please cast your vote if encountered the same issues so that we can bring this to Multicharts' attention:

1) http://www.multicharts.com/pm/viewissue ... no=MC-1176
2) http://www.multicharts.com/pm/viewissue ... no=MC-1318

Thanks

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 26 Apr 2013

Hello zegna1,
Note, similar issue has been reported by another user back in Nov 2012 (see viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11446)
1) The functionality that was discussed in this thread has been already implemented in MultiCharts 8.5 Release. Have you tried using this functionality? You can find the description in our DOM guide:Exit Orders Management

Regarding your problem description:
1) Specify the exact version and build number of MultiCharts you are using.
2) Specify your broker.
3) Describe the exact steps of replicating this behavior: what order do you place, how do you place it, what are the parameters (attach screenshot)? You can also capture that on a video.
4) Once you replicate this behavior please go to File->New->Open Order and position tracker window-> Orders tab->make sure you are not filtering the information in columns, then go to File->Export to excel. Highlight the problem orders and send them to me for analysis (support@multicharts.com).
5) Provide MultiCharts logs: in MultiCharts go to Help->Feedback->Send logs. Please let me know that you have uploaded the logs. If you want to send the logs manually please follow this guide: https://www.multicharts.com/trading-sof ... harts_Logs

2) Thank you for your suggestion. It has been forwarded to our developers. Due to complexity of this improvement we do not plan to implement in the nearest future. All users interested in this functionality are free to vote for it in the project management section.

zegna1
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby zegna1 » 26 Apr 2013

Hi Henry,

1) You must have misread my post. Let me restate the issue. " Multicharts should at least offer the option NOT to average any prices (i.e. entry prices, stop loss, trailing stops, and profit targets) and leave orders intact as entered by the user without manipulation." In my view, the functionality you pointed to is the root cause of the problem. Multicharts should at least offer the option NOT to average any prices (i.e. entry prices, stop loss, trailing stops, and profit targets) and leave orders intact as entered by the user without manipulation.

2) As for the second issue, Andrew have already looked the issue and sent me the following reply on Feb 7, 2013

"I double checked with the developers and it turned out that indeed each DOM window and Chart Trading Panel is not unique and it doesn’t save settings of exit strategies individually. I discussed with them and with our management the possibility to change it to the way you are interested in and unfortunately we are not going to implement it in nearest future. Please leave us a feature request: www.multicharts.com/pm"

I opened a pm request since Nov 19, 2012. It was neither acknowledged nor reviewed.

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 26 Apr 2013

Multicharts should at least offer the option NOT to average any prices (i.e. entry prices, stop loss, trailing stops, and profit targets) and leave orders intact as entered by the user without manipulation.
This option is already available in MultiCharts 8.5 Release. Please go to MultiCharts->File->Preferences->Trading->Exit Strategies Average Open Position Price: select "calculated based on order execution price". You need to reconnect your broker profile to make the setting come into effect.

2) That is not an issue. That is how it was designed originally. The status of your feature requests will be updated in the nearest future.

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby zegna1 » 29 Apr 2013

Henry,

The option you suggested for not averaging entry and strategy prices does NOT work. In other words, selecting “calculated based on order execution prices” under [File -> Preferences -> Trading -> Exit Strategies Average Open Position Price] does not make any difference. It is just another option for how prices are averaged.

The attached video clip, for Crude Oil June delivery, demonstrates this BUG. Not only Multicharts averages entry prices placed at 2 different price levels, but also:

1) Shifts all associated exit strategies including Stop Loss, Trailing Stop, and Profit Target for contract #1 from their original locations based the newly calculated average price.

2) Upon hitting the first Profit Target, it closes both contract #1 and contract #2 and all associated exit strategies for contract #1 (i.e. Stop Loss, Trailing Stop, and Profit Target for contact #1) BUT leaves all exit strategies for contact #2 in place (i.e. Stop Loss, Trailing Stop, and Profit Target for contact #2). Note that contract #2 itself was closed before its profit target was met (i.e. contact #2 was closed prematurely)

3) Here is another serious issue. Now exit strategies associated with contract #2, become new working orders for entry. As you can see in the video clip, the original Profit Target for contract #2, a price level where contract #2 was intended to be closed at, became an entry order, upon whose execution, Multicharts closes the original Stop Loss and Trailing Stop for contact #2 leaving the new entry exposed to market volatility. This should have NEVER happened. Multicharts should have managed the 2 contracts separately and independently exactly as how the trades were entered without any manipulation. For a trader, price levels for entry and exit are selected for a reason and what Multicharts does completely defeats a trader’s strategy. As I stated in my original post and bug report, this is a bug, which makes MULTICHARTS UNUSABLE FOR TRADING MULTIPLE CONTRACTS AT DIFFERENT PRICE LEVELS.

BTW, I use MultiCharts64 Version 8.5 Release (Build 6851).
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4-28-2013 9-50-49 PM.zip
Order Management Bug
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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 29 Apr 2013

zegna1,

Please provide all of the details that were requested so that we can analyze this case:
2) Specify your broker.
3) Describe the exact steps of replicating this behavior: what order do you place, how do you place it, what are the parameters (attach screenshot)? You can also capture that on a video.
4) Once you replicate this behavior please go to File->New->Open Order and position tracker window-> Orders tab->make sure you are not filtering the information in columns, then go to File->Export to excel. Highlight the problem orders and send them to me for analysis (support@multicharts.com).
5) Provide MultiCharts logs: in MultiCharts go to Help->Feedback->Send logs. Please let me know that you have uploaded the logs. If you want to send the logs manually please follow this guide: https://www.multicharts.com/trading-soft ... harts_Logs

zegna1
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby zegna1 » 29 Apr 2013

Henry,

The broker is Open E Cry (OEC)

Here are the steps to reproduce the issue:

1) Set Stop Loss exit strategy
a. Right click and select edit
b. Set the “Amount of Loss” to whatever # of ticks you choose
c. Click on More Parameters and select Stop Limit, offset 0
d. Set Time In Force to Day
e. Click Save
f. Right Click and select Auto Attach Exit Strategy

2) Set Trailing Stop exit strategy
a. Right click and select edit
b. Set the Amount of Profit to 0 ticks, and Stop Loss to whatever # of ticks you choose
c. Click on More Parameters and select Stop Limit, offset 0
d. Set Time In Force to Day
e. Click Save
f. Right Click and select Auto Attach Exit Strategy

3) Set Profit Target exit strategy
a. Right click and select edit
b. Set the Amount of Profit to whatever # of ticks you choose
c. Set Time In Force to Day
d. Click Save
e. Right Click and select Auto Attach Exit Strategy

4) Enter a position of 1 contract at price A. The above Exit strategies should be attached to price A
5) Enter a position of 1 contract at different price, price B. The above Exit strategies should be attached to price B
6) Observe what happen after both entries are filled and both contract are in play

In summary, the video clip I attached in my earlier post has already demonstrated this issue. Multicharts QA team should be able to reproduce this without any problem.
Just an FYI, I used OEC platform directly to place these trades and confirmed, unlike Multicharts, that orders are managed separately and independently. In other words, I did not see this problem using OEC when placing trades directly without using Multicharts as an interface. I will not be spending any additional time to further prove this problem exists.

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues  [SOLVED]

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 01 May 2013

Multicharts should at least offer the option not to average any prices (i.e. entry prices, stop loss, trailing stops, and profit targets) and leave orders intact as entered by the user without manipulation.
Hello zegna1,

Thank you for the clarifications. This option will be introduced in MultiCharts 8.7 beta 1 (expected within a week). Here is how to enable it:
  1. Go to Windows Start menu
  2. Type in "regedit"
  3. Find the following path: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\TS Support\MultiCharts64\TraderServer
  4. Change the following key ATM_PositionBasisMode to: dword:00000002

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby damnpenguins » 22 Aug 2014

Sorry to bump an old thread here, but I can't get this Reg fix to work. All of my entries are still being averaged. I thought the purpose of this fix was to enable me to have non-averaged entries displayed on the chart.

I am running Multicharts 8.8.

Is there nothing I can do to stop MC averaging my entries?

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby damnpenguins » 25 Aug 2014

Apologies to Mods if this is a duplicate post, I thought I submitted this prior to the weekend.

I am struggling a bit with this, I thought I could stop MC from averaging entries by way of the above information and this post http://www.multicharts.com/discussion/v ... 19&t=11446.

I have done the Reg Hack to switch the value, have been selecting “calculated based on order execution prices” under [File -> Preferences -> Trading -> Exit Strategies Average Open Position Price] and yet nothing changes.

Is there no way to stop MC from averaging entries (and stops)?

I'm on MC 8.8 and Open e Cry

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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 26 Aug 2014

damnpenguins, did you add the instrument manually or from the data source? Are the prices on your chart/DOM window/Trading panel correct? Have you tried to delete the symbol mapping, delete the instrument, then re-add the instrument from the data provider, add mapping and place an order?

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby damnpenguins » 26 Aug 2014

I have now ;) performed the abovementioned process. Deleted Symbol Mapping, deleted the Symbol. Re-Added the symbol, did the Symbol Mapping, placed these orders and.... no change.

Here are a couple of images showing what I am seeing here.

2 entries 1 pt apart on eMini NQ.

Second entry gets triggered, and the entry level is averaged. I have left horizontal lines where the orders were to verify that the entries are averaged.

I must be doing something wrong here.

I have set the flag in preferences as detailed above. I have set the reg for ATM_PositionBasisMode as referenced. But my entries are always averaged.

Thanks for your help!
Attachments
trade12.png
Second Entry
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trade1.png
First entry
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Henry MultiСharts
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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 26 Aug 2014

damnpenguins, are you referring to the average entry price for the position after the entries are filled or to the prices of the individual orders once they are placed?
Please go to File->New->Order and Position Tracker window->Orders tab. Are the prices of the individual entries correct? The open position always has the average entry price that is net of all entries.

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby damnpenguins » 26 Aug 2014

Thanks Henry, I am referring to the entries after they are filled.

The orders are listed with their proper fill price in the order tracker. The visual line on the chart is displaying the averaged level.

Is there no way to simply display each trade level individually on the chart?

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 26 Aug 2014

The visual line on your screenshots (2|5 ticks and 1|2 ticks) displays the current open position. It shows an average entry price. There is no way to show each entry order individually, there is a single net position at the broker with an average entry price.

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby damnpenguins » 26 Aug 2014

Thanks Henry,

I'm coming over to futures from FX and I'm used to having each individual entry displayed rather than averaged. Is there a workaround for this rather than simply hiding the active orders and manually placing say an arrow on the chart etc?

I'm assuming powerlanguage can detect when a new entry has been filled? So I should be able to code something to display the individual entry points?

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Re: DOM and Trade Management Issues

Postby Henry MultiСharts » 27 Aug 2014

There is no workaround for a different display. You can use PosTradeEntryPrice in your code to get the entry price of each individual entry.


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