Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

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Tresor
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Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 30 Jan 2010

TSS,

At the moment MC supports automated order entries. Would there be any plans in the near future to support manual order entries in MC?

It would suffice to have something like in the enclosed screenshot?

Regards
Attachments
manual orders.png
In the beginning it would be okay to have only 4 buttons:
- buy market
- sell market
- quantity
- close position (for forex)
manual orders.png (63.6 KiB) Viewed 8427 times

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Postby Anastassia » 03 Feb 2010

Would there be any plans in the near future to support manual order entries in MC?
Dear Tresor

We are planning to implement manual order entries in MultiCharts some time this year.

Can you please tell me what platform you used in the example of manual trading that you provided in the post?
Thank you in advance

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Postby Tresor » 03 Feb 2010

Dear Tresor

We are planning to implement manual order entries in MultiCharts some time this year.
Anastassia, you filled my heart with joy :)
Can you please tell me what platform you used in the example of manual trading that you provided in the post?
Thank you in advance
I didn't trade it, I just took a screenshot from here: http://www.focus-trader.com/learn_more.html The software is called Focus Trader.

But I think you might be interested in looking at this software: http://profstation.com/ Sensible (best I saw) platform concept. Happily for MC their charting is totaly screwed up (I trashed it after 1 day of demo testing) but integration with brokers + some bells and whistles are outstanding.

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Postby Anastassia » 03 Feb 2010

I am glad to be helpful Tresor.

And thank you very much for providing me with the name of the platform.

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Postby gregorio123456 » 03 Feb 2010

Dear Tresor

We are planning to implement manual order entries in MultiCharts some time this year.
Anastassia, you filled my heart with joy :)
Can you please tell me what platform you used in the example of manual trading that you provided in the post?
Thank you in advance
I didn't trade it, I just took a screenshot from here: http://www.focus-trader.com/learn_more.html The software is called Focus Trader.

But I think you might be interested in looking at this software: http://profstation.com/ Sensible (best I saw) platform concept. Happily for MC their charting is totaly screwed up (I trashed it after 1 day of demo testing) but integration with brokers + some bells and whistles are outstanding.
Another one NT.com

jo

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Postby Tresor » 04 Feb 2010

I am glad to be helpful Tresor.

And thank you very much for providing me with the name of the platform.
Anastassia, I am even more glad. If manual order entries are introduced to MC then your product will become a versatile charting and trading platform, meaning one will need to use only one software, which is extremely convenient.

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Postby Tresor » 08 Feb 2010

Something like this would be more than enough for me. I am not the artist. Sorry for ugly drawings.

Regards
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Postby Tresor » 09 Feb 2010

Another one http://www.tradeproject.de/en/home.html

Easy, clean and simple.
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manual1.png
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Postby geizer » 12 Feb 2010

Would there be any plans in the near future to support manual order entries in MC?
Dear Tresor

We are planning to implement manual order entries in MultiCharts some time this year.

Can you please tell me what platform you used in the example of manual trading that you provided in the post?
Thank you in advance
Anastasia, great news indeed,

May I help with some more examples?

These screenshots are of a DEMO DDplus/DDExtra platform running a DEMO account. Free 15 day trial download available at https://www.disnat.com/en/trading/try_ddplus.aspx
To register for free trial, a Canadian postal code/phone number required - any one from attached PDF file should be fine.

When I first started trading this is the platform I used.
The screenshots provide some basic info.


- their charting capabilities are rudimentary. Multicharts has much better charting. But what is great about them is their Account Management window - very detailed and provides exceptional information. You have all the buying power, open/closed Orders/History/and liquidity available at one click of the mouse. Of course that's because of it's tight integration with the broker (Software provided at no cost with brokerage account). The software developed by http://home.nexatechnologies.com/. I believe they don't sell it to individual traders (they can't compete Multicharts anyways), but rather to big brokerage houses who then bundle it with their services.

Hopefully this will help.
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Order Entry - window 3.png
Order Entry - window 3.png (27.05 KiB) Viewed 8277 times
order entry window 1 (buy sell, sell open).png
"Sell short" is not available here, because the Long position is open (broker specific).

similar: Top right corner to select an account to place an order with.
Again, they do not provide separate button for "Cover short"just the "Buy".
order entry window 1 (buy sell, sell open).png (21.93 KiB) Viewed 8237 times
Order entry window 2 (buy sell, sell short).png
GTC- good till cancel order
GTEM good till cancel Extended hours (?)
VTSO - virtual trailing Stop Order

Notes:
-Top right corner - select an account (if you trade Multiple accounts)
-They do not provide separate button for "Cover short", so the sam
Order entry window 2 (buy sell, sell short).png (20.63 KiB) Viewed 8312 times
General view 1.png
General view 1.png (115.67 KiB) Viewed 8246 times
Last edited by geizer on 12 Feb 2010, edited 6 times in total.

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Postby geizer » 12 Feb 2010

Here are some more screens of the detailed Account management:

Notes:
Top part - account balance indicating Borrowing power (BP), Cash, Profit/Loss of open and closed orders (O/PL, and C/PL), Margin Excess ? (ME) in both currencies, CAD and USD.
Next portion - Pending orders in both currencies.
The third pane from the top displays all the requests sent to broker, as well as received from it. Messages, like "we are experiencing technical problems communicating with the Exchange - please stay calm :)" also displayed here.

The bottom multiple tabs are self explanatory. I shall also add that they allow to preconfigure in what currency present the prices if you trade stocks on both canadian and US exchanges.

To summarize, why I think their order and account management windows are great - is because when I first started trading, it took me no time at all to get used to it, it's so natural, so doesn't took my attention away from the main job.

Also it's important the Profit/Loss can be hidden - for very good reason, so traders don't base their success or failure in trading based on Profit/Loss, but rather focus on executing the rules.
If you planning to implement the Manual order entry and Account Management within Multicharts, please consider an option to hide the PL so it does not get in the way when trading.


Thank you for considering,
--
Pavel
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Account window - Closed orders.png
Account window - Closed orders.png (60.52 KiB) Viewed 8240 times
Account window - Open orders.png
Account window - Open orders.png (66.43 KiB) Viewed 8234 times
Account window - Executions.png
Account window - Executions.png (57.36 KiB) Viewed 8228 times
Account window - order history.png
Account window - order history.png (80.62 KiB) Viewed 8227 times
Account window - stats.png
Account window - stats.png (63.96 KiB) Viewed 8252 times

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Postby Anastassia » 12 Feb 2010

Thank you very much Pavel for the information you provided. We will consider it for the future.

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Postby Tresor » 12 Feb 2010

I hope we have not scared TSS with all those pictues and explainations, and I hope that our input have not deterred TSS from implementing the feature :)

In the first implementation of the feature, as I wrote in the first post, it would suffice to have just 4 basic buttons at the start:

- buy mkt
- sell mkt
- quantity
- close / exit

Regards

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Postby geizer » 13 Feb 2010

Thank you very much Pavel for the information you provided. We will consider it for the future.
Anastasia, thank you so much for listening. You certainly know best what to do.

...
In the first implementation of the feature,...
Tresor, you made my day :D :D :D, lol

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Postby Tresor » 13 Feb 2010

And there is of course the order bar in TS.
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Postby janus » 13 Feb 2010

Here's what I've implemented, and would like to see incorporated into MC for better integration. I'm adding more features over time (eg, auto scaling in and out of contracts, profit targeting, stop limits, etc.) but the main features I've implemented are sufficient for MC to have built-in for now.

At the moment my orders are placed "at market" on the next tick in a study that calls my override application (via a DLL stub). I would prefer when MC implements their solution to make "at market" work in real-time so it doesn't have to wait for the next tick update to be passed to the broker's system.
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Postby janus » 13 Feb 2010

And there is of course the order bar in TS.
In IGMarkets they go one step more and allow you to use the mouse pointer to draw a horizontal line on the chart to set the buy/sell (limit or stop). I'm thinking of implementing something like it myself by using the trend line draw feature in MC and have my study pick up the latest line drawn, check if it's above or below the current market price to decide whether to buy limit or sell limit , or sell stop or buy stop depending on which type is selected on my gui add on that I posted earlier.

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Postby SP » 14 Feb 2010

Anastassia,

maybe you could take a look a buttontrader as it is the best frontent for IB
with the highest ranking on elitetrader
http://www.elitetrader.com/so/?action=v ... oductID=93

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Postby Tresor » 14 Feb 2010

Having looked at numerous implementations of manual orders posted by you guys, I would have problems to tell which I like best.

There are 3 options:

(i) manual order window to the right of the chart like in NT, ButtonTrader - this would be okay for multi-monitor traders and guys with wide monitors

(ii) manual order window above the chart like in TS and TradeSignal - this would probably be okay with single-monitor traders.

(iii) manual order toolbar in Toolbars above the chart - I would gladly replace e.g. Data Playback Toolbar with Manual Order Toolbar in my MC, just ike in the screenshot.

Regards
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Postby Bruce DeVault » 14 Feb 2010

"Trading from the chart" implementations like NT also typically include the ability to click on a price on the chart or DOM display to pick the order price, as well as the ability to drag the order up and down on the chart to modify prices - they're usually represented visually by a horizontal line at the appropriate price level starting either when the order was placed or just to the right of the price bars/candles and extending right. Buttons for order placement can be at the top or side - that's a matter of user preference and it's a good idea to make them dockable or adjustable so the user can put them whereever they prefer.

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Postby janus » 14 Feb 2010

IGMarkets system also allows you to do the same - move the line up or down the chart by dragging it. It doesn't stop there. One can use a sloping line as well. Another useful feature is autonomic pattern recognition for completed and emerging patterns to assist in the placement of the sloping trigger line.

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Postby janus » 14 Feb 2010

It's amazing how many trading systems already now incorporate manual override features for orders. I was so desperate to have it in MC I had to develop my own add-on, which I mentioned before. In fact I now believe it should be at the top of the list of new features for the next release of MC - all others can wait. I would like the following incorporated:

Buy x contracts at market
Sell x contracts at market
Buy stop x contracts at y
Sell stop x contracts at y
Buy limit x contracts at y
Sell limit x contracts at y
Cover all contracts at market
Block orders generated by a study
Cover all contracts and block orders generated buy a study
Release block

Note (and this is extremely important). All buy/sell orders above are regardless of current position. For example, if currently short 5 contracts, then an order to buy 2 at market results in being net 3 short after execution. An order to buy 10 contracts when 5 short results in being net 5 long. An order to buy 5 when 5 long results in being net 10 long. In other words, these are simple buy and sell orders that act exactly the same way a trader would work when using a manual trading system or calling the broker direct.

Also, if possible I like the way IGMarkets does it to be incorporated into MC (ie, drawing a horizontal or sloping target line on the chart itself). When the line is drawn above the current price the order is automatically set to a sell limit or a buy stop order depending on what the user selects from the tool bar. If below, it's either a buy limit or sell stop. The order quantity can be modified and the line moved using the mouse pointer. Horizontal trigger lines can also be drawn with a single click on the screen. Sloping ones can be draw with two clicks. The first click sets the pivot point and as the cursor is moved across the chart the line is drawn dynamically to assist in it's placement. Clicking it a second time fixates the sloping line. Cancellation of the order is done by clicking on a "X" next to a label that's attached to the line (see attached screen shot). Order quantities can be updated by right clicking on the label. For sloping trigger lines the trigger price is updated on each new bar.

However, drawing of the trigger lines by the user can be done at a later time - the far more important feature is the manual overrides described above. However, even when one places a manual order through IGMarkets, a horizontal line is drawn las if the user did it. The order can be modified/canceled the same way as above as well. So, I believe even with the manual override feature, there should be indicators drawn on the chart to signal when they are and their status. When hit, the label on the IGMarkets line changes to reflect this.
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Postby Tresor » 14 Feb 2010

In fact I now believe it should be at the top of the list of new features for the next release of MC - all others can wait.
I would love that :P

Anastassia, what is TSS approach to timing of manual order entry?

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Postby Anastassia » 15 Feb 2010

Hello Tresor

We are planning to implement manual trading some time this year, most likely in the summer.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 15 Feb 2010

Anastassia, thank you for publicly reaffirming this - it's important that users know what's coming so they don't think they have to fight for one feature vs. another when the reality is they can have both these major new features and routine bug fixes / minor improvements in the normal course of development. Manual trading will be a good addition to MultiCharts and a natural progression for the platform, and I'm sure it will be well appreciated when it's ready to go.

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Postby Tresor » 15 Feb 2010

Hello Tresor

We are planning to implement manual trading some time this year, most likely in the summer.
COOL :D

I as well as other users will be glad to help in case you need our opinion in the designing and development process of this feature.

Regards

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Postby MC_Prog » 15 Feb 2010

Since this is the topic where specific suggestions for the Manual Order feature are accumulating, I'd like to add here what I'd consider to be a highly important design goal for this: integration with PowerLanguage (PL) autotrading.

I'll call this Integrated Manual Trading, IMT for short.

To me, first-class IMT means -
  • User's can enter manually at time/price of their choosing, and have the exit(s) be automated with PL exits.

    User's can enter automatically with PL entries and exit at time/price of their choosing, without confusing any automated PL exit techniques which might also be present.

    Manual entries and exits go direct to the broker without needing to wait for a tick to trigger them.

    An automated chart becomes aware of manually signaled entries/exits immediately at the top of it's next-tick processing, so that redundant orders can be avoided.
Second-class IMT would be if the program presents a manual order interface, but the orders so signaled are not detected and sent until the next tick occurs. This is definitely simpler to implement, and in fact can be achieved now with 3rd-party coding.

Second-class IMT works works quite well for any market that is more-or-less continuously ticking, but is still a smidge behind what would be possible with rock-solid first-class IMT.

For markets that don't tick so often, second-class IMT is distinctly, well, 2nd-class :) .

Not integrated at all (aka third-rate!) is when the automation system is not aware of manually signaled trades, and the user is forced to choose between either fully automated or fully manual trading.

I think it would be near-tragic if the MC's implementation of manual trading is not integrated at all. Starting from scratch is a precious opportunity to leapfrog the competition. It would be sad to see it wasted.

Fortunately, alot of the competition is currently 3rd-rate. Thus, even a 2nd-class implementation would achieve some advantage for the MC platform.

However, since 2nd-class IMT can currently be achieved by third parties, using the from-scratch opportunity to reach directly for first-class IMT seems most desirable and potentially most game-changing for the future prospects of the platform.

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Postby Bruce DeVault » 16 Feb 2010

Absolutely - manually placed entries need to be detectable cleanly by running strategies, just as manual exits of running strategies' entries should cause MarketPosition/CurrentContracts to update properly etc., and it should be possible for running strategies to handle the exits if you make a manual entry, etc. - because this is a new implementation, there's plenty of opportunity to do this right. No doubt, it's important that there be an option for the two worlds to interact, and with MC's option of sync/async modes, this should be easy to do.

Often on other platforms detection of outside events such as position changes, fills, etc. without a trade tick having taken place is handled by a user-adjustable timer interval (example: twice a second) for the local code to be run.

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Postby Tresor » 18 Feb 2010

An interactive tour of the trading platform ONYX offered by Rosenthal Collins Group: http://www.rcgdirect.com/RCGOnyxInterac ... Index.html

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Postby Tresor » 19 Feb 2010

SC.
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Postby Tresor » 21 Apr 2010

Small and neat integration of manual orders into charts (just basic buttons like quantity, buy, sell and exit) + video: http://www.wave59.com/Portals/_default/ ... s/IOMM.mov
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Postby Tresor » 11 May 2010

Another examples (screenshots + videos) that TSS may find inspirational for the planned manual orders feature:

http://www.whselfinvest.com/en/f_platef ... icoter.php

Some nice features like auto bid, auto ask, sell / buy on the toolbar, trendline stops, etc.

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Postby janus » 11 May 2010

Another examples (screenshots + videos) that TSS may find inspirational for the planned manual orders feature:

http://www.whselfinvest.com/en/f_platef ... icoter.php

Some nice features like auto bid, auto ask, sell / buy on the toolbar, trendline stops, etc.
Yes, there are many good features there. I see that more and more competing products are implementing these features, and for good reason. This makes it top priority for TSS to implement a good bunch of competitive manual ordering features too, or it will be left behind.

I like the following extras to be included as I've implemented them myself and found them very useful:

1. A button to close all open positions made on a particular symbol being plotted.
2. A button to block orders that are auto-generated on a particular symbol being plotted.
3. A button to release the block above (of course).
4. A button to perform 1 and 2.

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Postby Tresor » 11 May 2010

1. A button to close all open positions made on a particular symbol being plotted.
This would be handy. I would like this button on the dockable Order and Position Tracker as presented on the picture.
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Postby Anastassia » 25 May 2010

Hi Guys,


Thank you all for your suggestions and spending time to help us create the best trading software possible. It is our goal to make manual trading of the highest standard and thanks to your advice and suggestions. We apologize for not responding to each particular post, because it is very time consuming, but we definitely examine all of them as we go along and take each into consideration. If we have any questions or need additional information regarding previously posted comments, I will definitely be reaching out to you.

Thank you all again

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Postby drudominique » 25 May 2010

Good morning.
I think that MC should be based on the Matrix of TS or screen reflector of WHselinvest, if MC wants to please the scalpers (great great fun) so maybe they can create an option that will build on button trader like this.

http://www.buttontrader.com/index.asp

cordially

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Postby Tresor » 26 May 2010

It is our goal to make manual trading of the highest standard.
Cool :)
If we have any questions or need additional information regarding previously posted comments, I will definitely be reaching out to you.
Many of us are interested in implementing manual orders in MC. It is really nice of you to express your interest in consulting us. Co-operating on this feature can result in manual orders be shaped the desired way.

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Postby Tresor » 17 Jun 2010

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 05 Aug 2010

Here are nice movies on a third party's solution for manual trading and manual trade management in MC:

MUST-SEE: (trendlines as StopLoss and TakeProfit) http://www.screencast.com/users/Progste ... 2d20fd8fad

STANDARD horizontal lines entries and exits: http://www.screencast.com/users/Progste ... 852ad13f3e

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 17 Aug 2010

Here's a nice manual order implementation for considering: http://tradevec.com/
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 20 Aug 2010

Yet another example of how manual orders can be implemented: http://www.photontrader.com/SiteDesignM ... Orders.wmv

There are also other videos that MC might find inspirational.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby TJ » 20 Aug 2010

Here are nice movies on a third party's solution for manual trading and manual trade management in MC:

MUST-SEE: (trendlines as StopLoss and TakeProfit) http://www.screencast.com/users/Progste ... 2d20fd8fad

STANDARD horizontal lines entries and exits: http://www.screencast.com/users/Progste ... 852ad13f3e
these are very good.
thanks for posting.

can you post the source?

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 21 Aug 2010


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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 21 Aug 2010

can you post the source?
http://www.codefortraders.com/MultiChar ... _Entry.htm

Loved this trendline breakout signal. Very, very useful.......

The problem with it, if I understood correctly, is that we do not have access to the code.
Spend $200 and not have access to the code?

No, thank you.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Henrik » 25 Sep 2010

Hello MC-Team,
are there any news or a release date for manual trading over MC?
Thank you!

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Anastassia » 27 Sep 2010

Hi Henrik,

At this moment, I am not able to provide you with the release date. I can only say that the Beta should come out before the end of November.

Thank you

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 28 Sep 2010

Anastassia,

Our commitment still stands to help you in case you have doubts of how this feature should be developed. If you have questions regarding our wishes / preferences on manual orders, do not hesitate to ask.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Anastassia » 28 Sep 2010

Hi Tresor,

Thank you very much for helping us.
On our end, we are open to any other suggestions on manual trading that you might have.

Thank you again.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 28 Sep 2010

hello anastassia

will it be possible to generate orders throught a simple (manual) trendline breakout?

regards,
fernando

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 28 Sep 2010

will it be possible to generate orders throught a simple (manual) trendline breakout?
will it be possible to generate EXIT orders throught a simple (manual) trendline breakout?

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Anastassia » 28 Sep 2010

Hi Fernando and Tresor,

We will support breakout for generating position entry orders, but we do not plan to support exit orders based on breakouts, as of now.

Thank you

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 28 Sep 2010

Hi Fernando and Tresor,

We will support breakout for generating position entry orders, but we do not plan to support exit orders based on breakouts, as of now.

Thank you
Pity, cause exit orders generated by trendlines are more important for me than entry orders generated by trendlines.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 28 Sep 2010

Case #1:

Assuming I have two forex accounts: one in PFG and one in Duka and want to execute orders manually, can the manual order window for a given instrument be doubled in the forthcoming MC? - so that I can enter an order for 1 lot AUDUSD via 'PFG manual order window' and a milisecond later I can enter an order for 1 lot AUDUSD via 'Duka manual order window'? Or will I need first to close 'PFG window' and then open 'Duka window'?


Case #2:
Assuming I have two futures accounts: one in PFG and one in Velocity; can I execute manual orders simultaneously to both brokers for ES mini with one click based on a rule I had previously defined in MC, e.g. If I sell short 3 contracts with one click then this order is routed by MC in the following way: 2 contracts are sold via PFG and 1 contract is sold via Velocity (with one click)?

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Anastassia » 29 Sep 2010

Hi Tresor,

We intentionally do not reveal the features that soon will be added for particular reasons. Please post your requests and suggestions and we will take all of them into consideration.

Thank you Tresor.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 29 Sep 2010

Hi Fernando and Tresor,

We will support breakout for generating position entry orders, but we do not plan to support exit orders based on breakouts, as of now.

Thank you
I really can't understand that.
Why will you support entry orders and not exit orders? Isn't that similar to sell a car without the tires? One cannot function properly without the other.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby miltonc4 » 29 Sep 2010

Sorry support,but not being able to do this doent make sense.
I am sure most would rather wait a little longer for your product, to have a complete product,then to rush and leave lots of these types of examples out
Keep up the good work
Miltonc

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 30 Sep 2010

What I am about to post is a must-be for MultiCharts as far as manual order entries go.

Multicore optimizations was a must-be for MC when CPU technology advanced in a certain way.

Today GPUs advanced in a way that it is possible to display desktop accross multiple monitors that act as Single Large Surface, using multiple solutions - just a few below:
http://sites.amd.com/us/business/produc ... onals.aspx
http://www.cinemassivedisplays.com/cinemastery.php

Multiple order entry tools within one workspace are a must-be for MC now if MC wants to attract discretionary traders as it once attracted algo traders.

Attached are two pictures of how this could be achieved in MC. Try to look at these pictures as if each were made of 3 monitors in portrait mode.

Regards
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MC manual order vertical.png
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 30 Sep 2010

And horizontal. For some reason the new forum does not allow to attach more than 1 file.
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 20 Nov 2010

Programmable Trading Buttons

I want to have them :)

As you can see from the movie a trader can add as many trading buttons as one wishes. Examples of such 'programmable' buttons:
- sellshort limit 2 lots via MBT
- buy market 12 contracts via Interactive Brokers
- etc.

Please watch from minute 39:30 http://www.screencast.com/users/MarketD ... 4b9d263051
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Dave Masalov » 23 Nov 2010

Programmable Trading Buttons

I want to have them
Dear Tresor,

Your feature request has been forwarded to the developers.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 24 Nov 2010

Dear Tresor,

Your feature request has been forwarded to the developers.
Thanks Dave,

Can't wait to test the newest alpha with DOM. Any idea of when this MC version will be availed to selected testers?

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Dave Masalov » 26 Nov 2010

Dear Tresor,

The Beta is not ready yet. We will get back to you as soon as it will be released.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Dave Masalov » 30 Nov 2010

Dear Sirs,

There is a discussion on manual trading features here: https://www.multicharts.com/traders-blog/?p=46

If you have any feature requests, please post them in Project Management section: https://www.multicharts.com/pm/

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 01 Dec 2010

Dear Sirs,

There is a discussion on manual trading features here: https://www.multicharts.com/traders-blog/?p=46

If you have any feature requests, please post them in Project Management section: https://www.multicharts.com/pm/
Dave, it is hard to post a feature request to the feature that we only know from this picture: https://www.multicharts.com/traders-blo ... s002_1.jpg

You would make our task much easier if you posted a screenshot of the current manual trading tool.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby TJ » 01 Dec 2010

Dear Sirs,

There is a discussion on manual trading features here: https://www.multicharts.com/traders-blog/?p=46

If you have any feature requests, please post them in Project Management section: https://www.multicharts.com/pm/
Dave, it is hard to post a feature request to the feature that we only know from this picture: https://www.multicharts.com/traders-blo ... s002_1.jpg

You would make our task much easier if you posted a screenshot of the current manual trading tool.
should have presented yourself at Vegas.

;-)>

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 01 Dec 2010

should have presented yourself at Vegas.

;-)>
This might have put me in danger of being scanned and groped at the airport. Tempting ... but no.

BTW, I hope that the layout of MC's trading tool and the nesting of DOM in MC presened on the picture from Vegas isn't the only one available.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby sptrader » 01 Dec 2010

This photo is a little better. I'm surprised that someone didn't go to the Vegas show and snap a close-up pic.
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 01 Dec 2010

I'm surprised that someone didn't go to the Vegas show and snap a close-up pic.
I am surprised MC showed their product with the manual trading tool to thousands of non-MC users but refuses to show the same to a handfull of MC' legitimate users.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Andrew Kirillov » 01 Dec 2010

Hi Guys,
Dennis is going to post some screenshots of MultiCharts pre-alpha tomorrow at our blog.
(please see software release life cycle here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_r ... life_cycle).
It is not the final version that will be released as a beta but it has majority of the functionality we are going to have in MultiCharts 7. The pre-alpha testing will be launched in a few days. Thanks for patience!

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 01 Dec 2010

Hi Andrew.

I don't know if you guys noticed, but this sort of secrecy that is surrounding MC 7 and it's manual trading ability is starting to create a lot of expectations among the users.

:)

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 01 Dec 2010

I don't know if you guys noticed, but this sort of secrecy that is surrounding MC 7 and it's manual trading ability is starting to create a lot of expectations among the users.
There are a number of expectations. These can generally be classed as:
(i) Algo traders' expectations:
Algo traders' expectations were expressed by Bruce DeVault, partially Janus and MC_Prog. The latter even elaborated on what a first, second and third class implementation is (from algo traders' viewpoint).

Algo traders' expectations and viewpoints are 99% irrelevant to discretionary traders.

(ii) discretionary traders' expectations:
Discretionary traders are completely different spiecies. They mostly care for the ease of use (multiple account trading via clicking one button, multiple manual trading tools in one workspace for multi-monitor set-ups, etc). Discretionary traders are the ones who will be using the manual trading tool in MC most frequently.

Discretionary traders' expectations and viewpoints are 99% irrelevant to algo traders.


You are right when you say the expectations are high. I myself am a discretionary trader and I almost got a heart attack when I saw the non-discretionary layout on Vegas picture.

Let's wait for tomorrow's screenshots :) If there are no F-words tomorrow on the forum, this will be indicative of MC managing to satisfy both algo and discretionary traders.


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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby TJ » 02 Dec 2010

Impressive !

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2010

1. I am looking forward to the alpha testing.

2. It is a good news that the right trading bar (vertical) is a geometrical extension of the chart. It is a great usability improvement over FXCM Startegy Trader.

3. Could a kind sould from MC post the following screenshot (as per attached picture):
(i) no DOM on the left
(ii) multiple charts with different symbols within one workspace
(iii) upper trade bar(s) turned on
(iv) right trade bar turned on for each separate chart (separate symbol)
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 02 Dec 2010


I'm speechless....

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby gregorio123456 » 02 Dec 2010

That is magnificent.....

beats all the competition

thanks

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 02 Dec 2010

... just got my breath back :)

I don't know where to leave suggestions, in the blog or here, but since this thread is being used to comment on the issue...

Regarding the DOM, as far as I can see in the images, it is detachable, right?
Now, imagine that we have 6 charts in a workspace and we want to have a DOM for each chart. Several of those charts are detached. One cool thing would be to have a way to attach each DOM to their respective chart/symbol, this way if we change the layout, both windows, chart and DOM, would go together.
This would prevent us to mix up the charts and the DOM's.

The same thing sould be done with the Order Window itself (window on the chart's right side).

Regarding the lines reporting sell and buy limits on General 3 image, are those lines created by the orders given trough the DOM or Order Window?
Can those lines be moved directly using the mouse and put elsewhere on the chart? Naturally that this feature would need to change the order already sent to the broker.
For example, we create a limit or stop order, it's sent to the broker and the line is draw on the chart. A couple of minutes later we decide to change it, we click on the line with the mouse, move it 10 ticks higher and when dropped on the new price level, a new window would pop up, confirming the changes in the order so it can be sent to the broker.

This would be a nice feature, but who knows, maybe it is already developed ;)

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 02 Dec 2010

There are a number of expectations. These can generally be classed as:
(i) Algo traders' expectations:
Algo traders' expectations were expressed by Bruce DeVault, partially Janus and MC_Prog. The latter even elaborated on what a first, second and third class implementation is (from algo traders' viewpoint).

Algo traders' expectations and viewpoints are 99% irrelevant to discretionary traders.

(ii) discretionary traders' expectations:
Discretionary traders are completely different spiecies. They mostly care for the ease of use (multiple account trading via clicking one button, multiple manual trading tools in one workspace for multi-monitor set-ups, etc). Discretionary traders are the ones who will be using the manual trading tool in MC most frequently.

Discretionary traders' expectations and viewpoints are 99% irrelevant to algo traders.
You are correct Tresor.
Two very different species :)

Being also a discretionary trader, everything that deals with chart manipulation is a high priority to me, though I thing that any discretionary trader that uses to Multicharts have some interest in "algo" trading, or at least, in my case, to right a couple of custom indicators and generate a couple of historic statistics.

Now that Multicharts will became a trading platform itself, meaning, will offer trading capabilities directly from a chart, this opens a new world for them and for us.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2010

Regarding the DOM, as far as I can see in the images, it is detachable, right?
As far as I can see there are no attach, detach, reattach isons in the top right corner of the DOM.
Now, imagine that we have 6 charts in a workspace and we want to have a DOM for each chart.
............................
The same thing sould be done with the Order Window itself (window on the chart's right side).
My hope is that we at least get a separate trade bar (order window) for each chart within the workspace, e.g. if you have a big monitor and decide to have 3 charts in one workspace you could have 3 order windows (trade bars) as well.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2010

Two very different species :)
Let's make a simplified parallel:

Two different spiecies:
(i) deaf people (discretionary traders), and
(ii) blind people (algo traders)
want to buy a good TV set (a trading platform).

1.a. The deaf people will insist that their TV must provide excellent visual experience. They will not care for the quality of sound - it's obvious.
1.b.The discretionary traders will insist that their platform allows to use single large monitor like this one: http://s1.hubimg.com/u/2958312_f520.jpg or multiple monitors in different modes, e.g. landscape or portrait mode, like this one: http://i54.tinypic.com/vy08ea.jpg

2.a. The blind people will mostly care for the quality of sound in their TV set. They even do not care for the size of the display or its resolution.
2.b.The algo traders will mostly care for .... whatever they care about ... The last thing they want to care about is ability to use multiple mointors (one monitor is enough for them, some might not even need to look at the charts at all) or have order window attached to each chart.


I hope that both the blind and the deaf were consulted by MC during the process of designing the manual order feature in MultiCharts :)
Last edited by Tresor on 03 Dec 2010, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby swisstrader » 02 Dec 2010

link of blind algo traders was wrong - here corrected: http://i54.tinypic.com/vy08ea.jpg


I hope that both the blind and the deaf were consulted by MC during the process of designing the manual order feature in MultiCharts

... or consult Hannah Montanna, she knows all ;-)

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 02 Dec 2010

I hope that both the blind and the deaf were consulted by MC during the process of designing the manual order feature in MultiCharts :)
They weren't consulted, they are being consulted ;)

This thread, the alpha release, the blog, all are proofs of it :)

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2010

I like the simplicity and aesthetics of the Trade Bar a lot :)

I am convinced that once the manual trading in MC goes to production and is released to the public it will simply blow away competing products.
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2010

Trendline used in trade management (exit strategy):
- Take Profit when price touches trendline
- Stop Loss when price touches trendline
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 02 Dec 2010

Here are a couple of videos from a YT channel of a company that (i) offers NT compatible DOM / Time&Sales tool and (ii) claims NT DOM is insufficient. This company sells / tries to sell its product for a few thousand of bucks, so it might be worth watching at least some of their clips for free.

http://www.youtube.com/OrderFlowAnalytics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_kJDgv0 ... r_embedded

I do not understand a bit of what is said there (I am a chart trader), but some algo geeks might find it useful

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Andrew Kirillov » 03 Dec 2010

... just got my breath back :)


Regarding the DOM, as far as I can see in the images, it is detachable, right?
Yes.
Now, imagine that we have 6 charts in a workspace and we want to have a DOM for each chart. Several of those charts are detached. One cool thing would be to have a way to attach each DOM to their respective chart/symbol, this way if we change the layout, both windows, chart and DOM, would go together.

It is impossible to attach a chart to a dom window because they have different different price axis and will not match in majority of cases.


Regarding the lines reporting sell and buy limits on General 3 image, are those lines created by the orders given trough the DOM or Order Window?
By any command: DOM, Chart or Manual Trade Bar.
Can those lines be moved directly using the mouse and put elsewhere on the chart? Naturally that this feature would need to change the order already sent to the broker.
Sure, of course.

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Andrew Kirillov » 03 Dec 2010


As far as I can see there are no attach, detach, reattach isons in the top right corner of the DOM.
There will be no attach command for the DOM window since it doesn't behave as other windows. It can't be maximized, stretched and so on. The DOM window is always floating. It will have a feature to keep it on top of all widnows.
The same thing sould be done with the Order Window itself (window on the chart's right side).
See attached.
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 03 Dec 2010

Yes.
Andrew,

Good to know you are alive.

While designing the order window MC applied the same logic of locating trading buttons as NT did. And I have a problem with this logic. The problem is described in picture 'available order window logic options'

Please consider changing the logic in line with picture 'logical solution'

Regards
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 03 Dec 2010

Here is the picture 'Logical Solution' mentioned in my previous post.

Regards

P.S.What can be done to attach more than 1 picture in a post?
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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby arnie » 03 Dec 2010

It is impossible to attach a chart to a dom window because they have different different price axis and will not match in majority of cases.
When I mention attach the DOM to the chart, I was referring too something similar to the trade panels.
As far as I can see, the TwoPanels image that you publish above show the trade panels attached or maybe the best word is merged (?) with the chart window.

Regarding the lines reporting sell and buy limits on General 3 image, are those lines created by the orders given trough the DOM or Order Window?
By any command: DOM, Chart or Manual Trade Bar.
Can those lines be moved directly using the mouse and put elsewhere on the chart? Naturally that this feature would need to change the order already sent to the broker.
Sure, of course.
Perfect!

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby Tresor » 03 Dec 2010

See attached.
Excellent. Multiple order windows within one workspace!!! This is what I was after :)

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby miltonc4 » 04 Dec 2010

Hi Andrew
Will there be a way to send information in the dom to excel,for example the total number of buyers at that time,and the number of buyers at that time>>>OR all the sellers and all the buyers,so that other calculations can be conducted on the information in excel?
Thanks
Milton

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Re: Any plans for manual order entry support in MC?

Postby swisstrader » 05 Dec 2010

Hi Andrew
Will there be a way to send information in the dom to excel,for example the total number of buyers at that time,and the number of buyers at that time>>>OR all the sellers and all the buyers,so that other calculations can be conducted on the information in excel?
Thanks
Milton
Good idea, MiltonC4!

To serve the market depth for coding in PL Editor would be also a great feature!

The TS community votes for this feature in a poll in their forum since 2004 and I guess they will vote until TS will close their company doors in Tampa.

-swisstrader


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