RANGE BARS STILL INCORRECT!

Questions about MultiCharts and user contributed studies.
worx
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Dec 2005

RANGE BARS STILL INCORRECT!

Postby worx » 02 May 2006

DEAR ALEX,

Since I switched my tradingsoftware to MC I realized some problems
with my trading. I had some drawdowns without beeing able to finde an answer to it . Till now.
I am a full time trader since 15 Years. And over a decade I am trading with Range Bars.
If I choose a Range of 2 Ticks the Ranges of the Bars must stay 2 Ticks.
If I choose a Range Bars of 10 Ticks the Ranges of the Bars must stay 10 Ticks. 100 % of the time. Not 99 % or 85 % or whatever Time.
The true condition of a Range Bar does not mean that a price should have traded within the Range but the RANGE of the price schould have happend.
If the Range has happend then this is enough to paint a bar for this range.

An Brazilian Trader invented the Range Bars to be able to analyze fast moving Markets. He decided to use Ranges as Bars to overcome the inability to use Time Charts in such volatile athmosphere. There is the rule
that once the Range is set no bigger or smaller Range schould appear within the chart. And this should happen 100% of the time.

Folks, you have a great program. I cant say that enough times. But a Range Bar is a RANGE Bar with a fixed set Range. This is a serious Buck.
I would even consider paying you for fixing this problem because I like this sotware very much. But please don't tell me that you can accept Ranges that vary in there Range. This is simply not true. As long as you call it a Range bar you have to fulfill your promise and create Range Bars!!

Thank You





I

momentum
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Postby momentum » 02 May 2006

I'd like to second worx comments.

Great program but please fix the range bars and do something about the IB downloads begining over again every time I open a chart.

Guest

Postby Guest » 02 May 2006

I also have noticed this glitch. Initially I thought it might be ok the way it is. However, after using if for a month, I've come to the realization that a true range bar canot be replaced. same range 100% of the time is what a true range bar should be.

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Alex Kramer
Posts: 834
Joined: 23 Feb 2006

Postby Alex Kramer » 03 May 2006

So, from this definition, what is to be done when a rapid price movement creates a gap?
Could you tell how you propose to handle this situation, which now leads to bars of size other than specified? Truncate the bar, skip the price, include in the following bar etc...

A definite example with exact figures would be most appreciated.

worx
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Dec 2005

Postby worx » 03 May 2006

Rapid pricemovements are the very reason for Range Bars.
I included a DAX chart with 2 spikes on your chart and a Range Bar chart
that shows how this scenario should have looked like.

And yes you gave a very precise definition how to create the range bar!
Truncate the bar, skip the price, include in the following bar etc...

Thank you!
Attachments
1TickDAXRANGEBAR.jpg
1TickRangeBaronDAX
1TickDAXRANGEBAR.jpg (140.4 KiB) Viewed 872 times
1TICKDAXon MCRANGEBAR.jpg
MC˙s Range Bar
1TICKDAXon MCRANGEBAR.jpg (146.77 KiB) Viewed 919 times

worx
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Dec 2005

Postby worx » 03 May 2006

As we know the minimum ticksize in the Dax are 0,50 Points.

Just to ILLUSTRATE the mechanism of a RangeBar or what a Range Bar does
I will choose a Range Bar size of 0,10 Points and 0,25 Points.
This means that every pricemove creates a gap a spike etc.
Every price move is volatile in terms of the choosen Range Bar size
considering the min Tick size in the dax.

If you download the RangeBar chart I think this will speek for itself.
Whenever the dax moves 0,5 Points the 0,10RangeBarChart will create 5Bars and the 0,25RangeBarChart will create two Bars.

This is the very reason and mechanism and sense of a Range Bar.

Even a "uneven" 0,2Range BarChart can be plotted......
Attachments
DAX10.jpg
0,1 POINT Range Bar in the Dax Future
DAX10.jpg (117.44 KiB) Viewed 827 times
DAX20.jpg
0,2 Point Range Bar in the Dax Future
DAX20.jpg (131.39 KiB) Viewed 843 times
DAX25er.jpg
0,25 Point Rabge Bar in the Dax Future
DAX25er.jpg (125.7 KiB) Viewed 841 times

worx
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Dec 2005

Postby worx » 03 May 2006

Not considering the untrue nature of a RangeBar I added 3 different results of 1 Point Range Bars for the DAX.
The first one is a 1Point Range Bar from the Dax with a Esignal feed.
The second one is the same chart with a IB FEED. The 3rd one is the same chart from a different workstation with a IB FEED. None of these charts is the same, identical witch they should be......
Attachments
DAX1.jpg
DAX1.jpg (88.59 KiB) Viewed 840 times
DAX2.jpg
DAX2.jpg (124.67 KiB) Viewed 812 times
DAX3.jpg
DAX3.jpg (124.7 KiB) Viewed 856 times

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Alex Kramer
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006

Postby Alex Kramer » 03 May 2006

Thanks for the detailed information, we're analyzing this.

Guest

Postby Guest » 04 May 2006

Is it possible that the incorrect Range Bar charting is forcing the database problem?

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Alex Kramer
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006

Postby Alex Kramer » 04 May 2006

>Is it possible that the incorrect Range Bar charting is forcing the database problem?

No, this is a datafeed issue; users that use no Range Bars are reporting it all the same.

worx
Posts: 17
Joined: 16 Dec 2005

Postby worx » 05 May 2006

I just want to show you once again that the Range Bars you are providing
are not only not showing 100% constant Ranges witch they should.
They are also adding prices to the chart that never happend.
For that reason I added a Esignal tick chart for comparison with your range
Bar chart. Both feeds are ESIGNALs.

This is just one example. These things are all over the place.

Thank you
Attachments
MC1.jpg
MC1.jpg (133.47 KiB) Viewed 812 times
MC2.jpg
MC2.jpg (95.69 KiB) Viewed 860 times

Guest

Postby Guest » 06 May 2006

Mabe MC is sometimes mixing up bid/ask prices with trades. Well i do not know. But the tick chart has tons of errors in it. Prices that never traded.
Attachments
picture1.png
picture1.png (84.98 KiB) Viewed 797 times

Guest

Postby Guest » 17 May 2006

Alex, can you give me an idea about WHEN the Range Bar issue - different size bars - will be resolved?

Thanks

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Alex Kramer
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Postby Alex Kramer » 17 May 2006

We considered this isssue, it was a long and interesting argument here on the forums (thanks to everyone who participated), and these constant range bars will be implemented - just cannot tell the exact date or release at the moment.

Guest

Postby Guest » 17 May 2006

Alex, this is a very HIGH PRIORITY for many of us as Range Bars make us profits from trading.

Guest

Postby Guest » 17 May 2006

Alex, this is a very HIGH PRIORITY for many of us as Range Bars make us profits from trading.

momentum
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Postby momentum » 18 May 2006

It is not a mater of an argument but simply that the range bars are not correct. A Range Bar is a bar of fixed range, always and is not data dependant. A new bar cannot be drawn before the range is completed and a new bar must be srawn after the range is completed. There is no point to having range bars unless these characteristics are met otherwise we may as well use tick or volume bars. Range bars take out the noise from the market. They should be drawn correctly. The feature of being able to draw multi time frame range bars is one of the greatest features of MC. The fact that they are drawn as variable range bars is taking away their precision. This is a very important issue, more important than the IB issue because we can work around that by using a different datafeed. There is no work around for incorrect range bars.

Guest

Postby Guest » 19 May 2006

I think the IB data feed is more important to be honest (though still feel your pain!). The whole reason for using multicharts was so as not to have to spend big bucks on esignal (it is big buscks if you add foriegn exchanges and forex). As iof now if MC crashes or locks up its time to take the rest of the day off while it re-loads!


momentum wrote:It is not a mater of an argument but simply that the range bars are not correct. A Range Bar is a bar of fixed range, always and is not data dependant. A new bar cannot be drawn before the range is completed and a new bar must be srawn after the range is completed. There is no point to having range bars unless these characteristics are met otherwise we may as well use tick or volume bars. Range bars take out the noise from the market. They should be drawn correctly. The feature of being able to draw multi time frame range bars is one of the greatest features of MC. The fact that they are drawn as variable range bars is taking away their precision. This is a very important issue, more important than the IB issue because we can work around that by using a different datafeed. There is no work around for incorrect range bars.

Guest

Postby Guest » 20 May 2006

I think both are important because both are basic functionalities that Multicharts currently claim to provide.

MC should make sure that their existing product is rock solid, and that all its current published features do not have bugs before proceeding to other things.

Guest

Postby Guest » 20 May 2006

I know that this can be frustrating for the guys from TSSUPPORT too.
I am sure they know that it is in there interest to provide basic functionality to a TESTPLATFORM wich is MC to attract as much "Testusers as possible'.

For that reason a Basic charting system will provide TIME CHARTS wich are provided.

And a Basic charting Platform will and must provide at least one INTERVALL CHARTING method
.
-- Witch can be Point & Figure or
-- Kagi Charts or
-- Range Bar charts

The basic functionality of al three charting methods are in principal the same.

I just want to make you, Stanley, Alex, Andrew aware of the fact that it is like you provide time charts that are not working. It is the same as long as at least one of these methods is not working correctly.

Intervall charts are one of the the basic tool of any serious trader.

I know that you greatly appreciate any respons to your product especially if you still consider these times as a testing phase for your product and us as your probands or test users. Especially for that reason you should make sure we test correct charting tools. One Time-intervall and one Price-intervall charting method.

Just last week I bought the second licence of your great software because I know you are going to fix the Range Bars. And I will add additional licences to our stuff. It just would be great if you could fix the Range Bars and give us some kinde of concrete statement in this matter.

Thank you very much!

momentum
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Range Bar Chart Totally Inconsistent

Postby momentum » 22 May 2006

Attached Range Bar chsrt is totally inconsistent and does not match requested input
Attachments
HSi Range1.png
HSi Range1.png (59.73 KiB) Viewed 799 times

Guest

Postby Guest » 16 Jul 2006

I see all the posts about range bars, but even though they might not be correct, I do not see an option in my MC to draw range bars. How do you do draw range bar and volume bars in MC?

Sam

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Alex Kramer
Posts: 834
Joined: 23 Feb 2006

Postby Alex Kramer » 17 Jul 2006

Right-click chart->Format symbol ->Settings tab.

In the Compression drop-down menu the
Contracts selects volume (i.e 343 contracts = 343 volume bars)
Point selects range (i.e. 10 points = 10 range bars)


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